Opposition to the minaret in South St. Louis (Rea: home, neighborhood)

[STLCardsBlues1989]

I was reading about the minaret that was built in the Bevo Mill area of South St. Louis. Initially, it was going to have loudspeakers on it to call church members to prayer. I understand that can be annoying. Apparently they decided not to have the loudspeakers (what I've heard). But reading a blog's comments made me sick.

Muslims are NOT terrorists. Some may be, but most are not. I'm a Christian. But there have been Christians kill people. Protestants killing Catholics, Catholics killing Protestants, "crusades". Are Christians terrorists? No.

Honestly, the comments I hear make me a bit sick. The mosque actually asked the FBI to investigate some threats against the mosque.

St. Louis has 50,000 Bosnians. I think a good number of them are Muslims. That is fine with me. They are not giong to threaten us. They are not spending their day thinking of ways to kill St. Louisans. They are generally fine people. They have feelings like us. They're just Muslim.

Here's the blog
Gateway Pundit: Islamic Prayer Tower Rises Over South St. Louis City

Any city that doesn't accept diversity won't go far. The noise is one thing, complaining based on religion is another completely. Backward cities generally don't grow very well. I consider myself conservative, but if Muslims want a tower, which it turns out will not have loudspeakers and will not disrupt the peace, what's the problem? This is not Pleasantville. In fact, intolerance is one reason that cities began to decline. "Blockbusters" would move a black or latino family into a neighborhood and everyone would be afraid of diversity and move out. Cities became a mess. Some got over it. Some somewhat got over it. And some are still struggling. Their tower will not have loudspeakers. They're not hurting anyone. Let them have their tower. You live in a city. You'll have to get used to diversity.

When I see Islamic countries letting Christians come in and build churchs and when Muslim women have equal rights, THEN I will not mind a Islamic prayer tower or mosques here.

Islam is not about tolerance, just look at the hell women and non-muslims go through in Islamic countries.

Guess what? For centuries Christian women didn't have many rights either. And Muslim women are getting some more freedom. Give it time.

No place for this barbaric filth in America - none.

Barbaric filth? Like Christians juding each other? Like people being discriminated against by people unlike them? What kind of barbaric filth are you talking about?

Something wicked this way comes.

This is not the beginning. Several citys in Michigan have silenced church bells and built towers that call out the call to Muslim prayer 5 times a day. Multi-Culturalism is a sin to Islam. There's is "our way, or the highway"... to death.

Slowly but surely, we will see these towers, these symbols of torture and death most hideous, rising in every American city across the land while our feeble minded pacifist ELECTED leaders willinlgly become the supplicants of tyrannical Islam and allow Islam to subjugate all of America at the behest of weak kneed slack jawed politicians, and their constituents who would rather die in slavery than resist the enemys of freedom and democracy.

It's just a matter of time, maybe our time, maybe our children's or grandchildren's time, before all of America will hear the Muslim call to prayer blared from loud speakers atop towers five times a day, everyday, 365 days a year, everywhere. Yet, so many people dismiss what should be an epiphany as a blind attempt at "equality", and they are ignorant that to Islam there is no such thing as "equality", only conversion, slavery, or death.

WAKE UP AMERICA... you can't ignore the beast standing on your doorstep and make it go away!

Thank you, Edgar Allen Poe. I'll make sure to read your novel when it comes out.

It is really hard on us white, non-muslims to have to live with these folks taking over our neighborhood and community. Our government helping these people relocate into America's heartland is like inviting the enemy into your camp. It's totally disgusting.

Ummm...okay? Are you saying only whites should live in your neighborhood? Only Christians? Sounds like a pretty boring neighborhood to me. I'm a white Christian. But sometimes I'd like to have some diversity in my town (I live in a town of 400, 99% white). And chances are, a lot of people who call themselves Christians, aren't when it comes down to it. They say they are. But how many act like Christians?

I've already said before that this country is being rotted from the inside out.

Rotted by what? By Muslims or by sin? Because everybody sins every day. Most Christians sin and don't necessarily do everything they can to stop it. They go to church Sunday, confess something and tell God what they want, go home and act like God isn't supposed to bug them during the week.

The Muslims want to take over the world.
If this crap of multi-culturalism is not stopped immediately, this county is short lived.

This country has always been multicultural. We have different religions, different races, different denominations in our religions, different personalities. Our country is full of cultures. You don't have to like them all, but they won't destroy our country. What will is intolerance and hypocrisy.

But why should they be equal at all? The Moslems are trying to destroy us and have killed countless thousands of innocents so far. Why can't we just decide that there is no room for the murderous cult here at all?

Christians have killed other religions and other Christians in the past. Are Christians terrorists? No.

I am very worried about this kind of stuff. Why are we letting muslims move into our country? Why cant we ban this ideology. Religion, BS. Read the koran and ahadith. Learn about islam. It is a cult that needs to be stamped out. **** CAIR and their terrorists here in the US.

It's Religion. They have a right to practice it. They are not hurting anyone. Leave them alone. And a cult depends on how you define it. Couldn't Mormonism be considered a cult? We allow it.
A cult is defined as:

cult
1.a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3.the object of such devotion. 4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. 5.Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols. 6.a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. 7.the members of such a religion or sect. 8.any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.

1. Doesn't Christianity also have ceremonies? What about a Bar Mitzvah. Is that a rite?
2. Isn't that every religion? They all venerate (read respect) a deity.
6. That one may be, since some Muslims live outside normal society. But so do mennonites and the amish, and the FLDS (Fundamental Latter Day Saints - often polygamists). Are they all cults? And in fact doesn't the Bible ask us to not look just like society? Shouldn't Christians stand out from society? The world is evil. We shouldn't blend in. I'm not saying we should completely separate ourselves. But we shouldn't partake completely of the world either. Because the world, by definition, is evil.
8. Not sure exactly what #8 is getting at. If it means people using methods other than conventional medicine, that describes Spiritual healing. Which is wonderful and does happen. Does that make Christianity a cult?

wait until they begin to look into your windows to see if you are praying or not with them. if not you are not with them praying they will force you to eventually. this is what islam is all about. they do not call it submission for nothing folks.

This is getting a little old. They will not make you pray with them. They can't. No one can make you do anything. That's why we have freedom of religion.

Our basic concern with religious liberty is founded on certain assumptions about religion which may not hold for everything that goes by that name. Islam for example, might well be considered not as a religion but as a criminal conspiracy. It's founding documents
demand that its adherents steal lie cheat pillage and rape as their natural right all those who are not Muslims, unless they convert or accept dhimmi status. Even if one abases oneself to be a slave, he may be killed at the whim of a "believer.
Let's get serious. While not all Muslims are murderous thugs,( and Muslims can make an excellent case with their Koran that those who are not are apostates and deserve death) still almost all the murderous organized thuggery in the world is Islamic.

I didn't know the Mafia is Muslim. You learn something new every day.
And any scriptures can be interpreted any way without any kind of context around them.

Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah.

Is that the Koran? No. That's the Bible. Biblical people did practice polygamy. I don't agree with it. And there's no reason for it. And I don't believe God ever intended it. But Biblical people (such as Jacob) did it.

<H3>Deuteronomy 2:33-35 (New International Version)

33 the LORD our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them—men, women and children. We left no survivors. 35 But the livestock and the plunder from the towns we had captured we carried off for ourselves.

</H3>

Deuteronomy 3:5-7 (New International Version)


5 All these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars, and there were also a great many unwalled villages. 6 We completely destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying every city—men, women and children. 7 But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves.

That's the Bible as well. They destroyed men, women, and children. Does that mean Christians today will? No. It happened. That doesn't mean God wants us to kill people. Murder probably happened in the Koran. That doesn't mean God wants it to happen. The Old Testament days of the Bible were rough. There were religious wars and lots of people died. The New Testament sees more scripture about love and not needing to war so much. But war did happen in the Bible. It doesn't mean that we need to make religious war today.

Deuteronomy 20:14
As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies.

Christians sometimes plundered, too. We wouldn't likely today. Now prisoners are supposed to have rights. They didn't then.

1 Kings 11

Solomon's Wives

1 King Solomon, however, loved many foreign women besides Pharaoh's daughter—Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians and Hittites. 2 They were from nations about which the LORD had told the Israelites, "You must not intermarry with them, because they will surely turn your hearts after their gods." Nevertheless, Solomon held fast to them in love. 3 He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray.

Yep. That's Wise King Solomon with 1,000 women. They led him to worship other religions. Apparently he wasn't always so wise. Would any man today be allowed to have 700 wives and 300 concubines? No. I'm glad polygamy is not allowed today. But the great King Solomon did it. And he has concubines, which is committing adultery.

It is my understanding (and perhaps amy proctor can help us, here) that wherever a mosque stands, the land under and around it is considered by muslims to be muslim homeland, and becomes part of jihad.

Source?

Last but not least. In Islamic teaching the broadcast of the call to prayer over an area claims that area for Islam forever more. It will be considered Muslim territory just like Spain is still considered Muslim land unlawfully stolen from Dar al Islam. They won't make that claim until they can, but they will certainly make it if ever anyone challenges their authority over that space or tries to take it back. In Islam, territory must be Islamaformed, environments purified and tailored for the comfort of Muslims first and foremost, then the dhimmis get only those accomodations which don't interfere. A Muslim must be perfectly comfortable and in control of an environment free of any offense or temptation. They believe that only in such an environment can a person be truly "respected" and pure. In other words they have to live in a bubble and anyone who wants to live with them must sanitize themselves so as not to upset the oh so delicate and morally sensitive and pure systems of Muslims.

They will gradually purify the area and God help anyone who tries to reverse the trend.

After a while you will hear liberals praising the wholesomeness of these areas and scoffing that anyone could have a problem with them. (Cultural betrayal is their M.O. after all.) But no one except Muslims and the odd multi-culti moonbat will want to live there.

We call America a Christian nation. That doesn't mean it is. We have God on our money and in our pledge. I have no problem with that. But isn't that making our claim that America is a Christian country? It's not really. It's not Christian in the actions of the majority of "christians". And there are all kinds of religions here. Christianity is even divided. Are we a Catholic nation? A Baptist nation? What?

Don't forget the other reason for this huge tower: in Islamic law, the tallest buildings in the city can only be Muslim. All infidel buildings must be shorter. This tower is much taller than it really needs to be because it's a statement of Islamic dominance.

What?

Please, please you good people wake up to the fact that islamification is spreading very quickly as it is here in the UK thanks to the corrupt dimwits we have as our leaders, fortunately, we have a political party to turn to (British National Party) (site removed) log on and see what's happening to our beloved country and please, don't let it happen to you.

Racist slime?

You moron, Islam is not a race but a virulent hateful religion/belief system.

They HATE ALL NON-MUSLIMS or have you forgotten about their attacks against Hindus in India or the destruction of the ancient Buddhas in Afghanistan?

BTW, since when has defending America and our Western values and way of life WRONG???

MORON...

Our Western way of life? That would be hypocrisy, gluttony (which is a sin), adultery, backstabbing, corrupt politics, lying, scamming, cheating, invasion of privacy. It sure seems like the Western way of life.
How about the attacks of Christians against Muslims and Jews during the Crusades? Was that right?

For the first decade, the Crusaders pursed a policy of terror against Muslims and Jews that included mass executions, the throwing of severed heads over besieged cities walls, exhibition and mutilation of naked cadavers, and even cannibalism, as was recorded after the Siege of Maarat.

Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Back to the comments:

I live near Saint Louis and it is awful what they have did to the city. The other day they were all celebrating the independence of Kosovo. I say that if they love it so much they should go back. They come to our western countries and they want us to be tolerant of their religion but Islam is out to destroy all other religions. Bosnia was a one hundred percent Christian country until the evil Muslims invaded, raped. Killed and enslaved the people and forced people to become Muslim. In Islam you have three choices. Become a slave convert to Islam or die. They would do this to all of America if they had the power

No one can force you to become Muslim. Most likely what happens is Muslims move in, every body else wets their pants, and all non-muslims move out.
We celebrate St. Patrick's Day. If you love it so much, move back to Ireland!
In Islamic countries there often is persecution against Non-Muslims. But that doesn't mean it will happen here. And sometimes it's more complex there than that. And there are oppressive countries that are non-muslim.


A comment I like:

As a part of the Bevo neighborhood (literally half a block from the mineret), I have absolutely no problem with it. First of all, you are mistaken in thinking that any sound will even come from it. It is symbolic only and does not even have speakers built into it.

On a more serious note, the xenophobia represented on this website scares me much more than any terrorist. Since when are we scared of everyone around us who is not a white christian. I'm not sure what Jesus you know, but the Jesus I know teaches us to love each other. That includes our Bosnian neighbors, who by the way have lived here peacefully for nearly two decades.

Peace to the Muslims who bring goodness to our neighborhood.

More ugly ones:

How dare you mention peace and Muslims in the same sentence? Muslims know nothing of peace. Their religion tells them to fight until Islam reigns supreme.

As far as the other person saying we do not like anyone who is not a white Christian. All I have to say to him is he is either stupid are just ignorant. First off Islam is not a race it is a religion. The people we are talking about are white Bosnian Muslims. As far as other religions, do you see anyone in here complaining about Hindus, buddist,athist ect? We just do not like Islamic snot suckers because they worship a mass murder, pedophile named Mohammad and they believe in murder to spread their evil religion.

WAKE UP, AMERICA!

An inch at a time they are going to take over and try to subjugate us to their sick beliefs.

My religion may or may not be right - but I don't force it on anyone else. I teach and those who feel the teaching is correct convert to it but Islam is worse than the Spanish Inquisition and conversion is coerced and the only alternative is death.

Who says they are forcing their religion on anyone else?

This concerns me greatly. Remember the Islamic religion has goals to be the ONE and ONLY religion allowed ont he face of the earth. It is not a peaceful religion; it spreads hatred, not the love of God. Women out there beware. Islam detests women. We will go back to way before the Dark Ages in the way women are treated if this continues. By sheer number, they could take over. Look what has happened in London. They teach that women must be abused. Mohammed is not a prophet of God.

Isn't Christianity's goal that everyone be a Christian?

I won't even bother posting the rest or arguing with them. They're all the same.

Please, let's stop this foolishness. The Muslims in St. Louis are not bothering anyone. They're not pillaging and forcing you to worship Allah. This is America.

Leave them alone, please. If you don't like it, fine. But they have a right to live peacefully in St. Louis as much as anyone else.

This one is especially disturbing.

Someone needs to fly into this eye sore a remote-controlled plane, painted just like an American Airlines jet and one that is outfitted with a couple sticks of dynamite. Send a REAL LOUD and clear message to these folks that we aren't allowing this crap in our country!

[STLCardsBlues1989]

A reply from a Muslim.

Now if all muslims are the same, why are there bosnian muslims in the US Army, or as a matter of fact any muslims at all??

I heard about a couple of guys, originaly immigrants from Bosnia, who enrolled and were sent to Iraq.
Our boys are good enough to go fight "your war" against "our muslims", cause according to some of the comments made here, a muslim is a muslim, we are all the same, cause we believe in Allah???

NO, NO, NO, And NO AGAIN.
If the boys wanted to enroll, it's their choice, let them be. Trust me when I say, their mothers cried because they were concerned for their sons, same as any other mother who's son was sent down there.

Two brothers are not the same, same goes for us muslims. We are muslims, does not matter from what country, but we are not the same nationality.
We pray in the same language, but we don't speak the same leanguage at home.

In Bosnia we believe in Allah, and he is our God, and we belive in Muhammed and he is our messanger.

In Bosnia, we were not tought to kill people because of their skin color or religion. We are thought to help others, no matter what religion, skin color or belifs they are.

In Bosnia you have to understand, only women who let it happen are beaten by their husbands, and don't even try to tell me it does not happen here in the USA, that a husband beats his wife.
My father never beat my mother, and of course she would not let him even if he wanted to, but he would not even think about it, he respects her.
And tell me about a bosnian muslim who has two or more wifes, and not four. They would like it probably, and some husbands might have a flirt or an affair on the side, but we don't have mogonamy in Bosnia. One Husband had ONLY ONE wife.
Don't talk about stuff if you don't know a thing about it.

For me descrimination based on gender, skin color, religion, nationality, is the same BS as if someone would discriminate based on hair color, eyes color, hair lenght.

I am proud of my origin and my religion, and I expect everyone to respect my religion. And I respect everyone religion and their origin.

STOP HATING, WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE ANYWAYS SOME DAY, BUT SOME OF US WILL GO TO HEAVEN, AND SOME TO HELL, SAME GOES FOR MUSLIMS AND CHRISTIAN, AND I GUES ALL OTHER RELIGIONS.

STOP HATING AND START ENJOYING YOUR LIFE.

[JaySTLouis]

We fear what we don't understand and hate what we can't conquer, Guess it's just a theory of man.

[BamaJack]

Sorry, but I think this thread - and the tone - is badly misplaced here. What may have started out as rightful defense of a possible wrong ... morphed into seemingly hours of blog/board dragging and an intense anti-Christian/-USA/-"Western way of life".

Why here? Were any here involved in the Crusades or the blog bigotry?

[STLCardsBlues1989]

No. I'm just wondering why the hostility toward it and what those on this board think.

If you don't want to reply you don't have to.

[JaySTLouis]

Originally Posted by BamaJack

Sorry, but I think this thread - and the tone - is badly misplaced here. What may have started out as rightful defense of a possible wrong ... morphed into seemingly hours of blog/board dragging and an intense anti-Christian/-USA/-"Western way of life".

Why here? Were any here involved in the Crusades or the blog bigotry?

Although I did find the reading of the topic very long I understood the point. It was blind ignorance and opposition from St. Louisians to a proposed minaret going up. Most of the replies went off of he say she say but it shows you that there are a lot of prejudiced and "hateful" people still walking around today.

STLCardinalFan89 - Maybe you could've shortened the topic and left a little personal commentary out of it. I understand the reason why you done it but the excecution was a little off.

[stepka]

I agree with you STLCardinalfan: I have no problem with it and I wouldn't if it was in my neighborhood either. We went to Turkey and Egypt last year, and people were very kind to us in both countries. The women's rights aren't what I would choose for myself, but I was surprised at how respectful the men were towards their wives. I'd had this misconception that they treated them like mongrel dogs or worse, but was pleasantly surprised. I actually enjoyed hearing the prayers on the loudspeakers--it was very exotic. We are too redneck if we can't tolerate that.

[kshe95girl]

Just a minor correction here..... a Bar Mitsvah is a Jewish rite of passage for a 13 year old boy, it has nothing to do with Christianity.
Most of my Dads family live in South STL, they dont know anything about the hullabaloo that you are suggesting, I emailed them. They are ok with it, and are devout Catholics.

[STLCardsBlues1989]

I know what a Bar Mitsvah is. I meant, does that mean Judaism is a cult, too?

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989

I know what a Bar Mitsvah is. I meant, does that mean Judaism is a cult, too?

Aah, I see. Hmmmmm, I would suffice it to say that there are probably folks that would say it is.