Hi, all. Probably moving to STL from Houston. A little help and encouragement desired >>> (St. Louis: rental, high crime)

[suziq999]

Hi everyone! My SO and I are both looking at getting offers from Barnes Jewish and making the big move from Houston to STL.

A few things worry me... 1) crime - which I guess I will just live in the right suburb and read the forums here ... and 2) lack of outdoorsey stuff to do. I'm originally from the northwest, but I've been living in Texas for awhile, so I'm really dying to do some hiking/biking/camping. Can anyone tell me how close and fun the Ozarks are for weekend trips? I know they aren't real mountains, but I'm trying to be positive. 3) racism.. I've heard STL isn't well integrated and that worries me. Thoughts?

As far as location, I'd like to be close to the hospital and the park, I think. So we've been looking at CWE, Clayton... Ladue seems a little far out. Any other suggestions for neighborhoods that are fairly close to the park and the hospital that are safe? We like fun, happening neighborhoods. Not necessarily barhopping, but nice places to eat and drink and shop. No kids yet, but will probably send to private school when we have them.

Suggestions? Warnings? Other? Thanks everyone!!!

[aragx6]

First off welcome to the forum. i hope we can help you with all your questions.

Crime - Is very localized, just as Houston is. There are some terrible, devastated, crime-infested areas in St. Louis and it's worth knowing, and we should all hope to be able to make it better. (Our North St. louis has a reputation a lot like the reputation Chicago's south side has) But that being said, there are vast swaths of the city and suburbs that are safe and livable. That's why the internet is awesome - it's far easier to find out about these sorts of things before you move here than it used to be.

Outdoor stuff - Oh you are in for a treat! St. Louis is an easy distance to many of nature's marvelous wonders. Outdoor adventures make up some of my favorite memories of childhood. When you have some time, i would peruse the MO state park's Web site for a little more on what this state has to offer. From caves, to lakes, to hiking, to float trips you can do it all. No you won't have the ocean or the mountains, but I promise, the natural landscape is fantastically beautiful here.

Racism - touchy subject around these parts. I have to finish some work and then I'm going to take the time such a question deserves. I'll get back to you.

[oscottscotto]

Well, from the sounds of it, you should definitely live in CWE or Clayton. CWE is safe in my opinion, integrated well among races, and literally backs up to the hospital. But if you worry about safty that much, you might should choose Clayton - and there are areas of Clayton just west of Forest Park that are still cool and close to the hospital (although it would be a 5 minute drive as opposed to a possible walk from CWE).

Being fairly new myself, I do not know much about the outdoors or the Ozarks yet. But, I know that you can get on I-44 about a mile south of the hospital, take a 30 minute drive out west on I-44, and end up in some decent foothills (but the furthest I have been out that way is Six Flags).

And as for crime, the general consensus on these boards is just to stay out of "North City" and possibly a suburb or two directly north of North City. Apparently, that is where the concentration of crime is at. But, as many will say, crime is everywhere in every city. Just be smart.

Good luck at Jewish-Barnes.

[OA 5599]

You'll love Missouri coming from Houston as far as outdoor actives are concerned. I grew up in the Ozarks but currently live in Austin (which has much more in the way of outdoor stuff than Houston, but it still can't really compare to Missouri).

St. Louis is at the very northeastern edge of the Ozarks. About 70 miles or so southwest of St. Louis are the St. Francis Mountains (not real "mountains" compaed to the Appalacians/Rockies/Cascades, but much moreso than the rest of the Midwest). You'll find lots of hiking there, neat geological features at Johnson's Shut-Ins, Taum Sauk Mountain, and Elephant Rocks State Parks. There is also a lot in the Mark Twain National Forest. The Ozarks also offer a lot in the way of canoeing and boating. The Meramec River and Huzzah and Coutious Creeks are within an hour or two of STL and both have nice floating, but if you go further south to the Current, Jack's Fork, or Eleven Point rivers there is amazing floating. Also, Lake of the Ozarks is located west of St. Louis (3 hours maybe?) if you are into boating/water skiing/ect.

The Katy Trail is a rail-to-trail starting in St. Charles and ending in Clinton, over 200 miles away along the Missouri River if you are into road biking. I'm also aware of some mountain biking at Berryman Trail between Steelville and Potosi, and I'm sure there is more.

You'll have plenty of weekend getaways within a 2 hour drive or so of St. Louis in the Ozarks, and even more if you go a little further. IMO, Missouri blows most of Texas (with the exception of West Texas) out of the water as far as outdoor activities go.

[aragx6]

Ok Racism:

I'll say this - I don't believe that most of St. Louis has a major problem with present-day racism, and I don't think we have nearly as difficult a history dealing with racism as Chicago does. Most of the problems St. Louis of today has with racism is more of the historical variety. But, I'm not the type to sugar coat things; it's just not my style.

It's also important to recognize that, sadly, St. Louis is still very much segregated, which is important to understand if you're going to move to St. Louis.

The far flung suburbs to the west (St. Charles county) holds most of the die-hard racists, because they want to get as far away from minorities as possible. That is in no way to say that all (or even most) of the people in St. Charles county are racist (I grew up there and knew many a family who didn't have a racist bone in their body) Many of them moved there (like my parents did in the 80s) for the cheap homes, but a lot of folks who live out that way now used to live in North County and fled as the "area grew darker" It's safe to say that diversity is not valued particularly highly in St. Charles county.

South St. Louis County is even less diverse - like 98%+ white, 2 percent Asian or Hispanic, no blacks. They (unfairly or not) get the moniker of "hoosier" down there - which is St. Louis speak for white trash. There are almost no black people in South County, which always strikes me as bizarre when I'm there, and I suspect it goes both ways, but it's certainly no accident.

North County is sometimes seen as a bad word in St. Louis, again sometimes a fair reputation, sometimes not. The far east parts of NoCo are not nice places, very high crimes, very little diversity (like Jennings), but Mid NoCo and Northwest NoCo are often unfairly lumped in. These are actually the most diverse suburbs of them all (places liek Florissant), and for the most part, both the white and black people that live there value diversity (If they didn't, they would have left long ago as others did) Schools there are average to slightly below average, which affects home prices.

West County is the ritzy area, though plenty of people there aren't even rich (esp. those who've owned their homes for many years, before the area was as desirable as it now is) It's mostly white as well, but overt racism is far more rare. They have little to fear in some respects, since the "riff raff" have typically been priced out of the area anyway. I have known black people that grew up in West County, and they liked it alright.

The city has gone through a transformation of sorts in recent years. After industry got sent overseas, St. Louis was a sad place, but things are far better now and there are so many beautiful old homes that have been rejuvenated (and still many more that haven't been) I truly urge anyone, especially those who don't have to worry about public schools, to look at living in the city, especially if you'll be working there.

Look at Dogtown; very safe neighborhood.

[suziq999]

aragx6 - Thanks for your reply. I figure Htown has it's bad points, STL must have some too, just stay out and you'll be fine. Sometimes it's deceiving looking at houses - similar houses can be 120k vs 500k depending on neighborhoods... I want to make sure my pension for being stingy doesn't get me in trouble.

OA 5599 - Yes, I've been starving for some outdoors. My best outdoor experiences are driving over to hill country - which starts at 5+ hours to get away. Too long for a weekend. So I'm definitely looking at STL as a place with closer choices. I will definitely look into all those routes you mentioned, and the biking. I love mountain biking! I usually have to visit relatives in Colorado to do it! LOL. Thanks for all your suggestions...

Any more ideas on neighborhoods to check out besides CWE and Clayton? I have dogs and would like a yard, so I know I won't be getting a cheap house...

[suziq999]

Arag - your second post... it makes sense that there is still tension... I mean - 4 people were arrested recently while plotting (?) an assassination attempt on Obama at the convention. It still boggles my mind that people feel this way. Being from the NW, we have all sorts of people there (though more Asians than blacks) and even Houston is very multicultural. I would hate to not be able to go to an awesome blues club just because I am white. :/

I will check out dogtown, thanks for the suggestion!

[OA 5599]

Originally Posted by suziq999

OA 5599 - Yes, I've been starving for some outdoors. My best outdoor experiences are driving over to hill country - which starts at 5+ hours to get away. Too long for a weekend. So I'm definitely looking at STL as a place with closer choices. I will definitely look into all those routes you mentioned, and the biking. I love mountain biking! I usually have to visit relatives in Colorado to do it! LOL. Thanks for all your suggestions...

Within 5 hours you can get down into northern Arkansas. The Boston Mountains may be 6-ish hours away from STL (not exactly sure), but that area is very mountainous, and should be able to feed just about any outdoor need except for skiing. The Hill Country has some cool places I've visited (Enchanted Rock, Pedernales Falls, and the area around the Frio River), but IMO the Ozarks offer a lot more and many places are far less crowded than portions of the Hill Country. The Ozarks are like the Hill Country to some degree...just more steep and quite a bit larger, with real trees too .

[STLCardsBlues1989]

Lake of the Ozarks seems to be a common destination for St. Louisans as well. I think the drive is a couple of hours, but it's a nice weekend destination. There are some nice resorts there, as well as fishing and water sports. The strip (though it has seen better days) still has some charming little shops.

Missouri has mountains (small ones), lots of hills, lakes, rivers, caves. There's usually plenty to do outside. Barnes-Jewish, I believe, borders Forest Park, so you could probably spend some outdoor time there. There are some beautiful homes just north of Forest Park, and I believe they're pretty safe. They're pretty expensive, but if you both work at Barnes-Jewish you may be able to afford it.

As far as crime, I think it depends on what you're used to.

I've heard Central West End is pretty safe, but it may depend on your comfort level. But you could live just a couple miles from your work. There's a MetroLink station there as well, which could take you into downtown for ballgames, concerts, etc.

And there are some rental properties around there, so you could rent before buying.

The suburbs are fine, but if you're willing to spend $200k-$300k on a home, and you're okay with some crime, I really don't see any reason to move out to a suburb and drive so far to work everyday. If you have children, schools may be an issue, but there are always private schools and magnets.

Suburbs are fine, but may not be necessary. I guess it just depends on your comfort level.

[suziq999]

Originally Posted by OA 5599

Within 5 hours you can get down into northern Arkansas. The Boston Mountains may be 6-ish hours away from STL (not exactly sure), but that area is very mountainous, and should be able to feed just about any outdoor need except for skiing. The Hill Country has some cool places I've visited (Enchanted Rock, Pedernales Falls, and the area around the Frio River), but IMO the Ozarks offer a lot more and many places are far less crowded than portions of the Hill Country. The Ozarks are like the Hill Country to some degree...just more steep and quite a bit larger, with real trees too .

Yep, I've been to Enchanted Rock too many times. LOL. It is beautiful. I like the idea of being able to get somewhere within a couple hours. It means a lot to me. I'm glad people are all saying the Ozarks are nice and not just something out of Where the Red Fern Grows...