roosevelt high school down the tubes (St. Louis, Windsor: magnet school, park, free)

[60'sGal]

Originally Posted by skipcromer

No I dont, its about being ignorant or not being ignorant. You stated that the reason Roosevelt went down hill was because of black people. Not the quality of people that moved into the neighborhood, but black people in general. If you cant see a problem with that there really is no need to discuss any further.

As far as white high schools with problems similar to Roosevelt, take a trip to Central Alabama or Western Mississippi, or anywhere in Appalachia. Same test scores, same drop out rates, different race.

Examples: Belle Pointe, Fort Smith, Arkansas. Palestine-Wheatley Senior High, Palestine, Arkansas.

Edit: If you would like, you can add Plano East High School in TX to the list. Great test scores there go along with a very high usage of heroin.

Im sure you are a wonderful neighbor. I have wonderful neighbors as well. The difference is, I dont have to listen to my neighbors talk about how bad the neighborhood gets when black people move in.

Oh, and one other thing. You don't "HAVE" to listen to a thing I say. You see my username...pass me by. Won't hurt my feelings in the least.

[skipcromer]

Ok, look lady. You cant have it both ways.

Quality of people? Surely.

The fact remains, Tower Grove Heights and the surrounding Schools and buisnesses suffered and declined due to the large influx of Blacks during the 1980's.

These are two very very different statements. Which one was it? Was the negatives of the area due to the quality of people, or their skin color?

And no, when I made my original statement i was not just talking about St. Louis Public Schools. I didnt know you assumed that, although I dont know why you would.

[60'sGal]

Originally Posted by skipcromer

Ok, look lady. You cant have it both ways.





These are two very very different statements. Which one was it? Was the negatives of the area due to the quality of people, or their skin color?

And no, when I made my original statement i was not just talking about St. Louis Public Schools. I didnt know you assumed that, although I dont know why you would.

Assume we were talking about St. Louis Schools? Well, let's see. It's a MISSOURI site....A ST. LOUIS site...A ROOSEVELT thread. Gee, why would I assume we were discussing St. Louis Schools?

Don't know if the Blacks were low quality. Didn't stick around to ask them. I know they destroyed property. I know they stole from my Mother. I know they vandalised property. I know they threatened my Mother on the streets. YOU judge their "QUALITY." I got my Mother the heck out of there. That was my only responsibility.

A question was posed..."What happend to Roosevelt." I answered it as honestly as I could. You didn't like me answer. Doesn't stop the fact that I'm right.

You want to argue "good" Black vs. "bad" Black. That was not the question. Had I answered the question with "Bad people moved into the nieghborhood and destroyed the properties and schools" you would have come at me anyway.

There is never a "Right" answer for people like you. You want an answer that agrees with your way of thinking? Next time have the guts to answer such a question yourself. You sat back and waited for someone else to step forward and answer a volatile question just so you could pounce. I find that cowardly.

[oscottscotto]

I used to teach in an economically depressed area (not in STL, but in a city more near the likes of New Orleans). My two cents - the "economically depressed environment" argument is the major factor for why many schools have trouble succeeding. To generalize and say that "teachers just don't care" (as someone did in the 2nd or 3rd post) is highly inacurate, at best. On that same note, most parents from these hoods "care" too, so to generalize and say the most parents don't care is also inacurate. The truth is that it's simply a myriad of economic and social factors that lead to a rough local society in some parts - that directly filters over into schools placed there. But what I can say - is that the supposed destruction of the middle-class mixed with a country that carries two minority races that (for good reason or not) carry a slight sense of anger and/or bitterness toward the major race (whether consciously or unconsciously) ... does not help the situation.

[skipcromer]

Originally Posted by 60'sGal

Assume we were talking about St. Louis Schools? Well, let's see. It's a MISSOURI site....A ST. LOUIS site...A ROOSEVELT thread. Gee, why would I assume we were discussing St. Louis Schools?

Don't know if the Blacks were low quality. Didn't stick around to ask them. I know they destroyed property. I know they stole from my Mother. I know they vandalised property. I know they threatened my Mother on the streets. YOU judge their "QUALITY." I got my Mother the heck out of there. That was my only responsibility.

A question was posed..."What happend to Roosevelt." I answered it as honestly as I could. You didn't like me answer. Doesn't stop the fact that I'm right.

You want to argue "good" Black vs. "bad" Black. That was not the question. Had I answered the question with "Bad people moved into the nieghborhood and destroyed the properties and schools" you would have come at me anyway.

There is never a "Right" answer for people like you. You want an answer that agrees with your way of thinking? Next time have the guts to answer such a question yourself. You sat back and waited for someone else to step forward and answer a volatile question just so you could pounce. I find that cowardly.

Lets break this down:

1st: If you thought I was referring to SLPS schools it simply wasnt the case. There was no where in my post that I limited it to St. Louis schools.

2nd.

Had I answered the question with "Bad people moved into the nieghborhood and destroyed the properties and schools" you would have come at me anyway.

Well, yes and no. I think it is a better argument as to why the neighborhood went downhill then to simply say 'black people moved in.' Because obviously people that have less respect for property and education did move in.

3rd

A question was posed..."What happend to Roosevelt." I answered it as honestly as I could. You didn't like me answer. Doesn't stop the fact that I'm right.

Well no...your not right. The color of their skin was not an issue. The fact that they did not respect their property is the issue.

4th

There is never a "Right" answer for people like you. You want an answer that agrees with your way of thinking? Next time have the guts to answer such a question yourself. You sat back and waited for someone else to step forward and answer a volatile question just so you could pounce. I find that cowardly.

Quite the contrary, I enjoy debating issues such as this. As you know, it is much more fun to debate somebody that has a different opinion then you. However, it is not fun when somebody dismisses an issue so simply as to say 'well, black people moved in.' It is simply ignorant and misses the bigger picture.

Ive seen neighborhoods in my hometown, Granite City, go to crap because new white people moved in. If somebody asked me why the neighborhood went bad, would it make sense for me to say 'because white people moved in?' No, I would say its because people who do not give a crap for their neighbors moved in.

So heres what I have gathered from your post(s). You do have a general understanding that there is more to it then 'black people moved in.' For whatever reason, you didnt feel like saying that in your first couple posts.

[aragx6]

A lot of schools in the St. Charles area did more poorly on standarized tests after the flood of '93 because of a lot of the lower class whites moving away from places like Portage De Sioux or West Alton.

[smis]

Sounds just like the Roosevelt High School in San Antonio Texas!

same type of people moved into that surrounding neighborhood in the late 80's and KAPPPOOFFF!

There goes the neighborhood!

[smis]

sorry, not Kapppoofff.., more like a vast sucking sound as the desirables fled the area!

shootings at the local Windsor Park Mall and pooof it closed down within a year!

[aragx6]

What on Earth are you talking about? What is Windsor Park Mall? This is St. Louis, not San Antonio.

[kshe95girl]

dang New Yorkers.........like they dont have enough wrong with their own city, they gotta come diss ours