Carondelet, Patch, Boulevard Heights, & Princeton Heights? (St. Louis, Des Peres: 2009, loft)

[EyesInTheSky]

Hello Gang!

I'm getting very close to my move and am going to make my housing-hunt trip within the next week or so. If anybody has any opinions and insights, I'd like to learn more about the subject neighborhoods (Carondelet, Patch, Boulevard Heights, & Princeton Heights). I'm mainly concerned about safety, but convenience to amenities is also a factor, as well as ease-of-commute to the Busch Brewery area (at Arsenal & Broadway).

Patch: There are virtually no mentions of this neighborhood in the forum, yet based on Census Bureau demographics it seems like it could be a decent area.

Boulevard Heights: Likewise no mention of it but also seems to have stable demographics.

Carondelet: A couple references to it in the forum but not enough to draw a strong preliminary conclusion. It seems this neighborhood could be a little dicier.

Princeton Heights: It seems the forum consensus is this is a very safe and stable neighborhood. Anybody agree or disagree?

Anybody have any opinions about some or all of these neighborhoods? Thanks! :-)

[aragx6]

I always thought Patch was a sub-neighborhood of Carondelet, but on the neighborhood map of St. Louis I always use and suggest, they list it as a separate neighborhood. It's probably best known as being home to the old St. Boniface Catholic church, which has been closed for years now. I had heard they were turning it into a theater, but maybe that never played out. I can't recall now, and couldn't immediately find anything about it on a google search. Anyway, Patch is quiet and very safe, very family oriented. Other than a few corner pub type places there's very little within walking distance.

Carondelet is just a bit north of Patch, and really I'd say just about the same things about it as Patch -- very safe if not a little dull. I would say that I prefer the Holly Hills neighborhood just for the better access to Carondelet Park (which is very nice).

Truly I know almost nothing about Boulevard Heights, though I think the housing stock is pretty similar in feel to Holly Hills, and you will have that better access to Carondelet Park. I'm pretty sure there's little danger of the Rivers Des Peres flooding down there, but it would certainly be worth checking on, as I know it floods in some places.

Princeton Heights is just south of Southhampton and is filled with all those adorable little St. Louis style bungalows and gingerbreads. I also feel like there's more "stuff" nearby, but maybe that's just because of my familiarity with the area? To me, PH offers all the safety of the far south neighborhoods but manages to feel a bit closer to the heart of the city and many of the destination neighborhoods.

[STLCardsBlues1989]

Here's some interesting info on Patch
Dotage - St. Louis, Missouri: The Patch Neighborhood and its Hidden Heritage
http://stlcin.missouri.org/nbr/neigh...cfm?neighnum=2
And Carondelet
http://stlcin.missouri.org/nbr/neigh...cfm?neighnum=1
Princeton Heights
http://stlcin.missouri.org/nbr/neigh...cfm?neighnum=6
Boulevard Heights
http://stlcin.missouri.org/nbr/neigh...cfm?neighnum=4

[EyesInTheSky]

Aragx6 & STLCardBlues1989:

Thanks very much for the insights! It sounds like all of these neighborhoods are relatively good from a safety perspective and the main downside is they are not really "destination neighborhoods." If I live in one of these neighborhoods and want to do some of the nightlife or artsy/cultural stuff, then it seems I'd need to travel to a different neighborhood. But that might be a reasonable price to pay for having the higher probability of safety both in and immediately around my home.

Princeton Heights in particular seems to be a recommended neighborhood by forum participants. And it's interesting that there's so little discussion of Boulevard Heights (BH) on this forum. BH seems to be a decent neighborhood in terms of safety, yet it's scarcely discussed in here.

And thanks for the links to all the individual neighborhoods. From these links one can learn the actual arrests and charges of various criminals. For example, thus far in 2009 Patch had 7 separate criminals arrested for committing violent felonies (plus numerous non-violent crimes--usually for drug possession, plus domestic assaults--which are not good but are not the type of crime that paralyzes a whole neighborhood with fear). I suppose by St. Louis standards, I will interpret these as low numbers associated with a safer neighborhood.

Great information. Thanks!

[SouthCityGal]

I can vouch for Carondelet (more specifically, Holly Hills), as I recently lived there for 5 years. There are a variety of home styles and income levels throughout the neighborhood, but you can kind of tell the difference if you drive around a lot of the streets. I always felt safe in the area. The best things about the area are fast access to Interstate 55 (great if you're working at the brewery), and all the new shopping and restaurants at Loughborough Commons. The park is great, too! The Carondelet YMCA is old, but has acceptable facilities (sometimes it's hard to find a place to park). I believe there's a new rec center opening in the park, but I haven't kept up with that development. The people in the neighborhood seem devoted to keeping up the area. If you choose near Carondelet Park, I would recommend a home very close to St. Stephen's parish (even if you're not Catholic--it's just a very stable area) or very close to Holly Hills Blvd. There are a variety of homes that close to the park, including nice brick homes. The range can be anywhere from low $100,000s for brick to the half million dollar "mansions" facing the park.

A good realtor, particularly one who specializes in South City, should be able to assist you further with the other neighborhoods, should you need more info.

[EyesInTheSky]

Originally Posted by SouthCityGal

I can vouch for Carondelet (more specifically, Holly Hills), as I recently lived there for 5 years. There are a variety of home styles and income levels throughout the neighborhood, but you can kind of tell the difference if you drive around a lot of the streets. I always felt safe in the area. The best things about the area are fast access to Interstate 55 (great if you're working at the brewery), and all the new shopping and restaurants at Loughborough Commons. The park is great, too! The Carondelet YMCA is old, but has acceptable facilities (sometimes it's hard to find a place to park). I believe there's a new rec center opening in the park, but I haven't kept up with that development. The people in the neighborhood seem devoted to keeping up the area. If you choose near Carondelet Park, I would recommend a home very close to St. Stephen's parish (even if you're not Catholic--it's just a very stable area) or very close to Holly Hills Blvd. There are a variety of homes that close to the park, including nice brick homes. The range can be anywhere from low $100,000s for brick to the half million dollar "mansions" facing the park.

A good realtor, particularly one who specializes in South City, should be able to assist you further with the other neighborhoods, should you need more info.

Thank you very much, SouthCityGal. You provided a very helpful description. Although I still have a lot to learn about the St. Louis neighborhoods, it's really amazing how much this forum can help bring things into a baseline level of focus even before I make my housing-hunt trip. I really appreciate all the great info you and the other forum participants provide! :-)

[hhillstl]

My wife and I live on Holly Hills Blvd., but west of Morgan Ford, so we are technically in Boulevard Heights but a stone's throw from Holly Hills. We love the neighborhood. Homes are nice and well-maintained, and there is definitely a neighborly feel to the community. Carondelet Park, the neighborhood anchor, is wonderful. My wife and I can jog late at night, and have never experienced any crime or had any fears for our safety whatsoever. It is also convenient due to its proximity to I-55. We have friends in Southampton, which is just north of Princeton Heights, and it may be an option for you as well as it is walkable and safe, though not quite as close to I-55. I am less familiar with Princeton Heights, but have jogged around it and it seems nice as well.

[EyesInTheSky]

Originally Posted by hhillstl

My wife and I live on Holly Hills Blvd., but west of Morgan Ford, so we are technically in Boulevard Heights but a stone's throw from Holly Hills. We love the neighborhood. Homes are nice and well-maintained, and there is definitely a neighborly feel to the community. Carondelet Park, the neighborhood anchor, is wonderful. My wife and I can jog late at night, and have never experienced any crime or had any fears for our safety whatsoever. It is also convenient due to its proximity to I-55. We have friends in Southampton, which is just north of Princeton Heights, and it may be an option for you as well as it is walkable and safe, though not quite as close to I-55. I am less familiar with Princeton Heights, but have jogged around it and it seems nice as well.

Thank you very much for your insights, Hhillstl. It seems the four neighborhoods that are the subject of this thread are all stable and safe, at least by St. Louis standards. I'd guess the reason they are not more popular with single professionals is because they lack the nightlife and action that is more common to Soulard and CWE. Thanks again!

[hhillstl]

Originally Posted by EyesInTheSky

I'd guess the reason they are not more popular with single professionals is because they lack the nightlife and action that is more common to Soulard and CWE. Thanks again!

I think that is true. A nice thing about St. Louis is that in comparison to many places, it is very "livable." In 10-15 minutes you can be downtown for a ball game, the Central West End for dinner and a movie at the Chase, or Forest Park to hit one of its wonderful attractions. Living other places before moving here has definitely made me appreciate the ease of living.

[EyesInTheSky]

Originally Posted by hhillstl

I think that is true. A nice thing about St. Louis is that in comparison to many places, it is very "livable." In 10-15 minutes you can be downtown for a ball game, the Central West End for dinner and a movie at the Chase, or Forest Park to hit one of its wonderful attractions. Living other places before moving here has definitely made me appreciate the ease of living.

Thanks again for your insights. I like that you've lived in other places and feel St. Louis is comparatively easier to live in.

As I'm a single professional with no family, I've not completely ruled out living in Soulard, the Loft District, or CWE; I'm sure I'd appreciate the nightlife, ambiance, and social activity. However, I'm also strongly considering The Hill, Dogtown, and St. Louis Hills (plus the 4 neighborhoods that are the subject of this thread), mainly because of safety and security.

In many ways I really look forward to my move to St. Louis, but in other ways it's going to be very difficult to leave my adopted hometown here in east-central Illinois and I'll really miss the close friends I've made and the convenience of this place. I never dreamed I'd live where I'm now at for as long as I have. I attended grad school at U of I and after I graduated I sort of adopted the community (it's a very common story in this place). But the offer in St. Louis is just too good to turn down, both from a financial perspective and an adventure perspective (I'll be doing some international travel with the new job).