Enough is Enough! (St. Louis: neighborhood, rooftop, live)

[SouthCity09]

Originally Posted by Fishtacos

It's a health issue, not a business rights issue. The same argument against is one of potential loss of revenue, but that of course hasn't been an issue in the endless other places. It'll happen in St. Louis, many years too late, but it'll happen.

wait to smoking is a health issue? but a 300 pound guy eating a 5lb burger with cheese and bacon is not a health issue.

[Keethler]

Originally Posted by SouthCity09

wait to smoking is a health issue? but a 300 pound guy eating a 5lb burger with cheese and bacon is not a health issue.

Someone eating a burger is a health issue. So is people that dont exercise. The difference between those who choose to eat unhealthy and those who smoke is that the fat contained in the burger is not spread around the restaurant and digested by those people who choose not to eat a burger. I understand that people are hesitant to change (i.e. losing "rights.") But, imagine this: if cigarettes didnt exist and we were all used to smoke free establishments, wouldnt it seem strange if cigarettes were invented and, all of a sudden, people began smoking inside restaurants? It would, end of story. This is an issue of reluctancy to change, not an issue of rights, freedom, business owners autonomy, etc. I smoke when I drink, which ironically happens when I am in bars. Trust me, its not that big of an inconvenience to go outisde and have a smoke, then walk back inside. If that sounds like a burden, you have a great life. Society involves sacrifices and if we can prevent those who choose not to smoke (bartenders, waitresses who do not smoke) from inhaling our toxic fumes by merely walking outside, the benefit far outweighs the burden. Wake up, for heavens sake!

[northbayeric]

I'm with aragx6 on this one, and I don't smoke. I think government at the federal, state, and in many cases local level, has just gotten too power-mad. It's hard enough for a small businessperson to succeed with the burdens of complying with regulations reasonable and ridiculous, paying sky-high business taxes, trying to meet payrolls, and sometimes losing customers because they're sick of getting parking tickets for being 10 minutes late in leaving the business establishment and moving their vehicles.

Due to all of the above, put me down as favoring a woman restauranteer's right to choose whether her restaurant has a smoking section or not. Let the free market govern the restauranteer's decision. Give out surveys. Determine how many customers would want to go to a total non-smoking environment, or stay with separate smoking/non-smoking sections. For me, tobacco smoke is a nuisance, but it's not Saddam Hussein's poison gas.

[SouthCity09]

Originally Posted by Keethler

Someone eating a burger is a health issue. So is people that dont exercise. The difference between those who choose to eat unhealthy and those who smoke is that the fat contained in the burger is not spread around the restaurant and digested by those people who choose not to eat a burger. I understand that people are hesitant to change (i.e. losing "rights.") But, imagine this: if cigarettes didnt exist and we were all used to smoke free establishments, wouldnt it seem strange if cigarettes were invented and, all of a sudden, people began smoking inside restaurants? It would, end of story. This is an issue of reluctancy to change, not an issue of rights, freedom, business owners autonomy, etc. I smoke when I drink, which ironically happens when I am in bars. Trust me, its not that big of an inconvenience to go outisde and have a smoke, then walk back inside. If that sounds like a burden, you have a great life. Society involves sacrifices and if we can prevent those who choose not to smoke (bartenders, waitresses who do not smoke) from inhaling our toxic fumes by merely walking outside, the benefit far outweighs the burden. Wake up, for heavens sake!

yeah i know.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Fishtacos

It's a health issue, not a business rights issue. The same argument against is one of potential loss of revenue, but that of course hasn't been an issue in the endless other places. It'll happen in St. Louis, many years too late, but it'll happen.

It's not just a health issue, it's a nicotine issue. The reason smoking bans are so delicate is because of the addictive nature of nicotine and the amount of people who smoke. Out of all addictions to kick, nicotine is by far the hardest.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by SouthCity09

wait to smoking is a health issue? but a 300 pound guy eating a 5lb burger with cheese and bacon is not a health issue.

good point. But a guy eating a 5 pound burger with cheese and bacon doesn't affect the health of those around him like a smoker can (second-hand smoke). Not to mention that 5 pound burgers can't stick an entire room up like a cigarette.

[skystl]

Originally Posted by ajf131

good point. But a guy eating a 5 pound burger with cheese and bacon doesn't affect the health of those around him like a smoker can (second-hand smoke). Not to mention that 5 pound burgers can't stick an entire room up like a cigarette.

A 300lb guy can easily stink up an entire room. As for the bar and restaurant workers, I'm pretty sure they know what they are getting into when they take a job in a smoking workplace. No one is forcing anyone to go inside a place that allows smoking. If you force smokers outside to the sidewalk, pedestrians who wouldn't have gone inside the smoking bar have to walk through a crowd of smokers to get across town. I think the better idea was putting signs outside of businesses that tell you if they allow smoking or not.

[aragx6]

What about the business owners who spent thousands of their own dollars installing advanced smoke filtration systems?

I know several in Chicago who were completely screwed over on their investment, and who aren't allowed to have people smoke in their establishment even after all the time and money spent ensuring the safety of all non smokers while also ensuring the comfort of everyone.

[SKIDDD]

I live in long island new york, its a thing that has caught on over the last 15 years to "be offended" by smokers!! be an individual and don't go by what others say...... if you are 40 and over you were around smokers all the time, now it bothers everyone. Be real!!!!!!!!!!!

[Todd.LA]

Originally Posted by jlawrence01

Good. After we have eliminated tobacco, I think that alcohol should also be completely eliminated. After all, it would be nice to be able to drive around midwestern cities on a Saturday night without the threat of a drunk driver killing me and my family. It is another health issue.

Just a MODEST PROPOSAL.

Do you favor legalization of marijuana? We lock up millions of people for possession of that harmless drug each year, so if your true concern is personal liberty to use substances, indoor smoking bans are hardly the greatest encroachment on that liberty. No one has been thrown in jail for violating an indoor smoking ban.

Personally I don't care what you smoke, I just don't want you blowing smoke all over the place. It smells bad, it ruins the taste of my food and drink, and it's rude. If smokers won't be polite on their own (i.e., by stepping outside to smoke), then I personally have no problems using laws to force them to do so.