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Old 07-19-2011, 06:49 PM
 
34 posts, read 29,250 times
Reputation: 25

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinsdalePirahna View Post
Regardless of wear I live, You don't actually need to live in an area to feel the pulse of a city. (and 35 miles is such a long haul. Sheesh.

I was in OK City for less than a week, and you can feel that something exciting was happening there. I wouldn't want to live in OK city but there was definitely some good energy.
You were in a area that is not that close to the city core. I'm sorry but lake st louis has a completely different feel than the city or the inner ring burbs. That's like someone saying Chicago has no energy, but they live in Joliet.
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Old 07-20-2011, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Volker, Kansas City, MO
12,062 posts, read 19,228,576 times
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You're right DP, I don't think you have to live in the city to see the vibrancy. And some who lives that far from the core can, if its a priority to them, discover lots about the city.

But what I can't understand then is how you can say it? You're in the vast minority of people who can look at St. Louis' walkable, vibrant urban neighborhoods and not feel it. And of people who think Oklahoma City has a cooler vibe than St. Louis? I think that might just be you alone. It's just crazy.
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
5,358 posts, read 6,268,347 times
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I did so much work downtown that I almost felt like a city denizen. There were times I merely went to LSL just to sleep.

The thing about OK City which is also a fairly ugly, bland city is an energy in the air that something is happening. Its a vibrancy that simply did not exist in StL. I picked up on in during a short visit there. I did not have to live there to feel it.
Love the Oklahoma "River" and what it did to revitalize a very depressed area.

On he other side, here in Huntington Beach, There is more going on within a 5 mile radius from my home than both StL and OK city combined.
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,443 posts, read 17,996,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinsdalePirahna View Post
I did so much work downtown that I almost felt like a city denizen. There were times I merely went to LSL just to sleep.

The thing about OK City which is also a fairly ugly, bland city is an energy in the air that something is happening. Its a vibrancy that simply did not exist in StL. I picked up on in during a short visit there. I did not have to live there to feel it.
Love the Oklahoma "River" and what it did to revitalize a very depressed area.

On he other side, here in Huntington Beach, There is more going on within a 5 mile radius from my home than both StL and OK city combined.
Your last sentence is comparing apples to kumquats.
Thats like me saying STL has a lot more going on than Orlando and Jax combined, which it does, but thats fodder for another thread.
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:01 PM
 
1,783 posts, read 2,112,557 times
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We can go back and forth till we're all blue in the face but I mean, really? You mean to tell me the CWE isn't vibrant on any random night, full of hudreds of people walking around, biking, eating outside? REALLY? Or Forest Park and Tower Grove park on any random day? Now take what I said about the CWE and apply it by about a dozen other neighborhoods, perhaps to a slightly lesser extent (Cherokee, Soulard, the Loop, The Grove, Morganford, Wasington Ave, South Grand, Benton Park etc etc...) and you simply are either in denial or your definition of vibrant is midtown Manhattan on a Saturday afternoon and nothing less.
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:10 PM
 
427 posts, read 393,093 times
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Can someone explain why STL didn't annex when it could years and years ago? I read pages back it was political or something but didn't explain why. I live in San Antonio and STL is the poster child as to why SA needs to annex in the local papers so say the politicians. The building codes are stricter in the city than the unincorporated areas in the county, control growth, expand the tax base etc. The local papers didn't make disparaging remarks about STL. I have a relative that lives in STL and several in IL and have been there many times and like the city.
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
5,358 posts, read 6,268,347 times
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Yes there are vibrant communities in StL. CWE reminds me a lot of Pittsburgh (A city which has a lot going on - but tell that to the locals and they seem to take it as an insult).

Point is that you can go to any midsize rust belt city and find very similar communities.

The difference is that there is not a lot of big thinking in StL. like there is in cities such as OK City and Pittsburgh where things are definitely happening.
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Old 07-20-2011, 08:55 PM
 
1,107 posts, read 895,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyH View Post
Can someone explain why STL didn't annex when it could years and years ago? I read pages back it was political or something but didn't explain why. I live in San Antonio and STL is the poster child as to why SA needs to annex in the local papers so say the politicians. The building codes are stricter in the city than the unincorporated areas in the county, control growth, expand the tax base etc. The local papers didn't make disparaging remarks about STL. I have a relative that lives in STL and several in IL and have been there many times and like the city.
Technically speaking, St. Louis city didn't stop annexing. What they did was separate themselves from St. Louis county. In effect, this prevented them from annexing in the future as it is very difficult (if not, impossible) to incorporate land in a different county that is separate from the rest of the city.

The reason the city did this was primarily economic. At the time, the city was the home of the wealthy and was much more densely populated. Infrastructure costs and other services are more expensive in a less populated area, so the city experienced a drain of its resources to subsidize these services provided to outlying areas of the county. Of course, as more of the wealth moved away from the city, the plan backfired--particularly post World War II when the middle class had the mobility thanks to the car and a post-Depression economy.

The secondary reason for the separation was cultural. Remember that the secession occurred in 1876 on the heels of the Civil War. The city was dominated by European influences--especially German families--who opposed slavery. The rest of the state was much more agriculturally inclined. St. Louis was an industrial and transportation powerhouse at the time. According to the 1870 census (just before secession from the county), STL was the fourth largest city in the US, trailing only New York City, Philadelphia, and Brooklyn. Looking at this from a pre-automotive era lens, no one could have forseen the problems secession would play down the road.

I don't know how much of STL's annexation policy really applies to San Antonio. The massive suburbanization of the 50s, 60s, and 70s will likely never be repeated as we're starting to see the problems with low density suburbs as they age. I know that SA has rapidly annexed a lot of land and the population and development of the metro is booming, but the catch for them is in maintaining a certain level of density in what they annex so the tax burden associated with the aging infrastructure down the road doesn't come back to bite them. Doing this will being able to gobble up areas that are commercial/employment centers is the balance.
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Old 07-21-2011, 07:53 AM
 
Location: St. Louis City
70 posts, read 138,436 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by DinsdalePirahna View Post
Yes there are vibrant communities in StL. CWE reminds me a lot of Pittsburgh (A city which has a lot going on - but tell that to the locals and they seem to take it as an insult).

Point is that you can go to any midsize rust belt city and find very similar communities.

The difference is that there is not a lot of big thinking in StL. like there is in cities such as OK City and Pittsburgh where things are definitely happening.
OKC has benefited and boomed from soaring energy prices. I lived there for years. Unemployment is low and cost of living is very cheap. But I agree with other posters - outside of Bricktown there's just really not much to do. St Louis has many of the problems associated with most old larger cities, but it also has myriad world class institutions, universities, attractions, etc that make comparing the two kind of silly.
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
5,358 posts, read 6,268,347 times
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I was pointing out the sense of getting things done and the projects moving forward, something that just is not happening in StL.

For better of worse, I would rather live in StL than OKC
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