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Old 09-30-2010, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Syracuse, NY
186 posts, read 537,897 times
Reputation: 129

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
That wouldn't be a bad thing considering what colleges have done to boost areas like the Research Triangle of NC, Austin TX, Silicon Valley and others. Pittsburgh is another city that has started to look towards it's colleges more.
Don't get me wrong I don't think this is a bad thing at all. I support that idea for a number of different reasons. Here are a few:

#1. It would help keep these kids that attend SU here for work. You never want kids to come to your city for an education and then leave. Educate them and give them a reason to stay and use their education in Syracuse.
#2. It will encourage people to push the limits of their job skills/education rather then riding in neutral for 20 year and then getting pissed off because their job left the city and they have no usable job skills.
#3. More white collar jobs usually results in clean nice neighborhoods. with higher property values (that might be a bad thing given the high property taxes though lol).
#4. Higher level of income to collect taxes from. That will help with city with improvements and maybe even be an argument to lower property taxes.

I could go on and on. But anyway I honestly see the city of Syracuse slowly heading in that direction. I think it would be their best option to be honest. But you have to give insentives for those types of business to move there and you don't want to completely take away the small city lifestyle ether. So take it slow and make sure it's done right if that's the route they want to head down.

Anyway just thoughts. If things happen that way then great. If not oh well. I still really like the city the way it is.
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:25 PM
 
10,540 posts, read 10,760,497 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
That wouldn't be a bad thing considering what colleges have done to boost areas like the Research Triangle of NC, Austin TX, Silicon Valley and others. Pittsburgh is another city that has started to look towards it's colleges more.
Those areas are far more developed with a stronger network of colleges and universities compared to syracuse.
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Syracuse, NY
186 posts, read 537,897 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
Those areas are far more developed with a stronger network of colleges and universities compared to syracuse.
They all started from the bottom and went up.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:11 AM
 
2,440 posts, read 4,955,891 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Magicians Eye View Post
Don't get me wrong I don't think this is a bad thing at all. I support that idea for a number of different reasons. Here are a few:

#1. It would help keep these kids that attend SU here for work. You never want kids to come to your city for an education and then leave. Educate them and give them a reason to stay and use their education in Syracuse.
It would help if someone at SU would publicy expose their unspoken policy of staunch unwillingness to hire their own graduates. My friend's husband recently had to move to Rochester with the family because, as much as he loves SU, they don't hire their own people. Nice, eh? He's more than qualified to be a professor, with a PhD and many years of experience in his field (and various supporting fields) before that.

It makes me want to pull out my hair, when I hear about how SU graduates leave the area. Basically, the college sends them out on their own, witho nary a hope for being hiring at their beloved alma mater. Awesome.
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Old 10-01-2010, 07:57 AM
 
56,149 posts, read 80,213,622 times
Reputation: 12387
Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
Those areas are far more developed with a stronger network of colleges and universities compared to syracuse.
I don't agree with the stronger network, considering that CNY has something like the 3rd highest rate of college students per capita. There are so many colleges/universities in the area that could help spark a varied economy, that it's not even funny. http://www.creativecoreny.com/index....127&Itemid=%20

Like someone stated, they had to start from somewhere and those places weren't always what they are now. http://www.creativecoreny.com/
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Armory Square
107 posts, read 192,165 times
Reputation: 261
We get it chopchop, you hate syracuse, and **** all over it every chance you get. Why do you continue to post here? I'll admit at lot of the items you bring up are true, but that's not the point, the point is that it feels like that area is at least turning a corner and heading in the right direction. We know that a lot of manufacturing left the area in the 90's and early 2000s, but we're talking about what's going on now, not dwelling on the past.

What's so great about where you live?

ckh is absolutely right, look at our general population compared to the population of students enrolled in higher education we have in the area?
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:20 AM
 
10,540 posts, read 10,760,497 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by syr83 View Post
We get it chopchop, you hate syracuse, and **** all over it every chance you get.
I've actually talked about the nice points of CNY before (the natural beauty, 4 seasons etc), but hey go ahead and stick your head in the sand when it comes to everything else.

At least you have the honesty to admit this:

Quote:
I'll admit at lot of the items you bring up are true, but that's not the point, the point is that it feels like that area is at least turning a corner and heading in the right direction.
Quote:
Why do you continue to post here?
To balance out the cheerleaders here. People should get a full picture of what is going on. I lived in syracuse for 4 years while I was studying up there. I truly believe that upstate NY would be in a far better position if it weren't sabotaged and held back by the more liberal policies that are passed in Albany for the benefit of NYC.

I truly believe that upstate and downstate should have been separated a long time ago. Until that happens, upstate will continue to flounder as a side effect of downstate's policies.

Quote:
We know that a lot of manufacturing left the area in the 90's and early 2000s, but we're talking about what's going on now, not dwelling on the past.
The past will continue to be the future if people don't examine what caused those problems in the first place and try to correct them. It's pretty much rinse, wash, repeat otherwise.

Quote:
ckh is absolutely right, look at our general population compared to the population of students enrolled in higher education we have in the area?
Sorry, but ckh didn't address my point. places like the research triangle in NC and Pittsburgh have much stronger and more established universities. SU is nice, but it's no carnagie Mellon or Duke.

The sad thing is, because of Albany's policies, the college students leave upstate pretty much after they finish their education and move down south to places like FL, TX, NC, GA, SC etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/13/ny.../13census.html

Quote:
In New York City and the five suburban counties in New York State, the number of people ages 18 to 44 increased by 1.5 percent in the 1990's. Upstate, it declined by 10 percent.
Over all, the upstate population grew by 1.1 percent in the 1990's — slower than the rate for any state except West Virginia and North Dakota.

Population growth upstate might have lagged even more but for the influx of 21,000 prison inmates, who accounted for 30 percent of new residents. During the first half of the current decade, the pace of depopulation actually increased in many places.

David Shaffer, president of the Public Policy Institute, which is affiliated with the Business Council of New York State, described the hemorrhaging of young adults as "the worst kind of loss."
"You don't just magically make it up with new births," he said. "These are the people who are starting careers, starting families, buying homes."

In almost every place upstate, emigration rates were highest among college graduates, producing a brain drain, according to separate analyses of census results for The New York Times by two demographers, William Frey of the Brookings Institution and Andrew A. Beveridge of Queens College of the City University of New York. Among the nation's large metropolitan areas, Professor Frey said, Buffalo and Rochester had the highest rates of what he called "bright flight."

Last edited by chopchop0; 10-01-2010 at 09:34 AM..
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:57 AM
 
56,149 posts, read 80,213,622 times
Reputation: 12387
Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
I've actually talked about the nice points of CNY before (the natural beauty, 4 seasons etc), but hey go ahead and stick your head in the sand when it comes to everything else.

At least you have the honesty to admit this:





To balance out the cheerleaders here. People should get a full picture of what is going on. I lived in syracuse for 4 years while I was studying up there. I truly believe that upstate NY would be in a far better position if it weren't sabotaged and held back by the more liberal policies that are passed in Albany for the benefit of NYC.

I truly believe that upstate and downstate should have been separated a long time ago. Until that happens, upstate will continue to flounder as a side effect of downstate's policies.



The past will continue to be the future if people don't examine what caused those problems in the first place and try to correct them. It's pretty much rinse, wash, repeat otherwise.



Sorry, but ckh didn't address my point. places like the research triangle in NC and Pittsburgh have much stronger and more established universities. SU is nice, but it's no carnagie Mellon or Duke.

The sad thing is, because of Albany's policies, the college students leave upstate pretty much after they finish their education and move down south to places like FL, TX, NC, GA, SC etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/13/ny.../13census.html
While SU is no Duke or Carnegie Mellon, it's no slouch either. Cornell is only an hour away, if that and when you have a high rate of students and colleges, the potential of the area is great. This is along with the natural resources, location on a global level, as well as the regional aspect and the other things that have been mentioned(beauty, 4 seasons, etc).

Also, that article is from 2006. Some things have occurred since then that have changed some things in that article.

Again, to just blame the state when local entities like law enforcement, fire departments and even school districts could consolidate services, but don't doesn't help either. Such things can be done on the local level. So, everything isn't just on the state government.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:33 PM
 
1,544 posts, read 3,063,473 times
Reputation: 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
While SU is no Duke or Carnegie Mellon, it's no slouch either. Cornell is only an hour away, if that and when you have a high rate of students and colleges, the potential of the area is great. This is along with the natural resources, location on a global level, as well as the regional aspect and the other things that have been mentioned(beauty, 4 seasons, etc).

Also, that article is from 2006. Some things have occurred since then that have changed some things in that article.

Again, to just blame the state when local entities like law enforcement, fire departments and even school districts could consolidate services, but don't doesn't help either. Such things can be done on the local level. So, everything isn't just on the state government.
As someone who lives downstate but has family ties to upstate and would like to move back to Syracuse someday, I am convinced the political policy decisions that have crippled the state's economy almost exclusively originated from NYC area legislators that are beholden to the trial lawyers, teachers unions and other public employee unions. The Working Families Party is nothing short of a terrorist organization that has bankrolled the campaigns of politicians that support their agenda and sidelined those who are moderate or independent in political ideology. The current leadership in the Senate and Assembly has no interest in supporting upstate or improving NY's business climate. Demonizing private enterprise and wealth in the name of supporting the unsustainable growth in non federally mandated social programs is the sole agenda of the Working Families Party and current leadership in the House and Senate.

Merging the purchasing departments of the city and county are good first steps, however any real change in tax policy and tax burden will only come when the state removes unfunded mandates that put significant pressure on the local counties and realigns the compensation and benefit structure of public employee contracts to reflect 21st century realities.

I just wanted to clarify something in the last sentence of my first paragraph. I meant the "current leadership in the state assembly and state senate" not House and Senate, although that would most certainly apply.

Last edited by RollsRoyce; 10-01-2010 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:47 PM
 
10,540 posts, read 10,760,497 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Also, that article is from 2006. Some things have occurred since then that have changed some things in that article.
Not really. Unless you have a newer article that refutes those findings? Just because it was written in 2006, doesn't mean the data is invalid now. It was looking at population trends over a 20 year+ time period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RollsRoyce View Post
As someone who lives downstate but has family ties to upstate and would like to move back to Syracuse someday, I am convinced the political policy decisions that have crippled the state's economy almost exclusively originated from NYC area legislators that are beholden to the trial lawyers, teachers unions and other public employee unions. The Working Families Party is nothing short of a terrorist organization that has bankrolled the campaigns of politicians that support their agenda and sidelined those who are moderate or independent in political ideology. The current leadership in the Senate and Assembly has no interest in supporting upstate or improving NY's business climate. Demonizing private enterprise and wealth in the name of supporting the unsustainable growth in non federally mandated social programs is the sole agenda of the Working Families Party and current leadership in the House and Senate.

Merging the purchasing departments of the city and county are good first steps, however any real change in tax policy and tax burden will only come when the state removes unfunded mandates that put significant pressure on the local counties and realigns the compensation and benefit structure of public employee contracts to reflect 21st century realities.
Exactly.

Upstate is screwed as long as it is part of NYC. No amount of local government consolidation or change will fix the harm that comes out of the agenda from Albany (which of course is written by the public-sector unions).

Seriously, when there are 49 other states to choose from, why would any business choose to re-locate to upstate? There are much more business-friendly place to set up shop with lower payroll taxes, lower corporate taxes, and less red tape. Places like NC and TX are bursting with business activity because the entire state is receptive to pro-growth policies.

What we have in NY is the failed empire program that allows already-established businesses to exploit loopholes to gain advantages without bringing new jobs into the area, instead of creating an environment where ALL business benefit.

http://blog.syracuse.com/news/2008/0...ng_empire.html
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.s...businesse.html

Last edited by chopchop0; 10-01-2010 at 12:55 PM..
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