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Old 10-11-2010, 08:45 AM
 
56,252 posts, read 80,408,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
How about this?

Syracuse's population continues to decline | syracuse.com



I guess the post-standard hates syracuse too.

Or how about the fact that the CNN article was published THIS YEAR?

I guess CNN must hate CNY and syracuse too It's funny to see you guys complain about what I post, when all I am posting are FACTS and LINKS to back up those FACTS.
Again, there have been recent gains and of course when a city doesn't annex a surrounding community since 1936, had urban renewal which wiped out some neighborhoods in the mid 60's, had it's peak just as suburbanization occurred and is only 25.3 square miles, why is that a surprise? You have Southern cities that are as big as Syracuse in terms of land, but have the population of Utica(Greenville SC is an example of this). What sense does that make?

It's not like the metro hasn't held steady since it's peak and any loss has been very minimal. Right now, as other areas have been falling off a bit due to a false growth, in a sense, right now the city and area is in a state of transition for the better. So, you have to understand that things change and the area still has quite a few redeeming qualities to it. It's not like the unemployment numbers and affordable housing prices with some steady appreciation aren't facts either. Who judges just a city anyway, considering the amount of suburbanization in metro areas?

Syracuse is 81st in terms of urbanized population in the country and imagine if cities annexed land like cities in other parts of the country? Luckily, they don't, as the sprawl would be ridiculous.
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:07 AM
 
10,576 posts, read 10,792,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Syracuse is 81st in terms of urbanized population in the country and imagine if cities annexed land like cities in other parts of the country? Luckily, they don't, as the sprawl would be ridiculous.
syracuse has its share of sprawl outside of downtown, but within city limits. What would you call Erie blvd? What about all of the sprawl towards the north of syracuse (Clay is a big example of suburban big-box sprawl).

The only city that really annexed a ton of land to make itself look bigger was Jacksonville, FL, and anyone who knows this knows that it's ridiculous that Jacksonville says it has 1.3 million people (when in reality, most of those people live in the county, not the city).
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:31 AM
 
Location: SENIOR MEMBER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Your last sentences are exactly my point. When someone from Florida doesn't know what is going on here, it's easy to use articles that really aren't as relevant as one might think. I've provided plenty of proof on city-data showing that Upstate NY isn't monolithic in terms of population loss. For instance, I've shown that Monroe County actually gained 22,000 people in the 90's. Saratoga, Jefferson, Clinton, Seneca and Tompkins Counties, among a few others have gained people in the first decade of the 2000's. Syracuse has actually gained people the last couple of years and there are other examples, if one would look on here. So, it's not speculation.
ckhthankgod & proulxfamily; People like you and I and others who actually live here and may have lived here for years ARE THE ONES who KNOW the actual conditions that exist here in Upstate New York metro city areas: Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Albany/Capital District Cities, Utica/Rome/Herkimer, Watertown, Binghamton, Ithaca. We know our part of the country is a wonderful, quality of life, huge region pocessing great assets both Natural Assets and Man-Made Assets. Natural Assets. Finger Lakes, Adirondack Mountains, Thousand Islands, Niagara Falls, and much more. I bet some States would love our ABUNDANCE of water resources=all the many lakes, rivers, & streams. Do you think that Pancake Flat or Hot Desert States would enjoy our beautiful green rolling countryside and our grand forested mountains. And Man-Made assets. All the QUALITY Universities, 4 year colleges, community colleges, technical schools, etc. offering a QUALITY education. The St. Lawrence Seaway for shipping to/from the ocean. The Erie Canal which runs from Albany to Metro Syracuse to Buffalo. Our great Expressways/Highways system which connects all parts of our state. And more man-made assets.

I have informed and counselled people on City-Data and privately regarding relocating to Metro Syracuse and to other parts of Upstate New York from places such as California, Nevada, Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, Georgia, and other states and from congested, expensive, urban Cities. Some of those people have relocated here and say that they love our part of the country.

As many of us know, Metro Syracuse has been named the #1 Most Affordable Home Buying Metro Area of the U.S. 100 Largest Major Metro Areas in the whole country. In SYRACUSE CITY you can buy lovely, original Victorian architecture homes or Craftsman style bungalow homes or stately Brick Covered Georgian style homes or other types at VERY reasonable prices=I've heard of "bargain" sales prices like $88,000 to $100,000 for these beautiful IN-CITY homes. Some homes with stained glass windows & stained wood grain original woodwork & hardwood floors and large spacious rooms as they built in "past times". In the many Suburbs, you can buy brand new built homes of various styles and sizes starting at $160,000 to $225,000 and up/higher priced^ for new homes with a lot of upgraded features. In my opinion, you can buy a NICE new 3 bdrm., 2 bath home with garage in the Suburbs for around $190,000-$200,000 and be very happy with that home. Remember that in this area, 98% of both older CITY homes and new Suburban homes have Basements offering you more space, unlike some parts of the U.S. where homes are constructed on a ground level concrete slab with NO basement.

The whole Upstate New York Region stays pretty much Stable compared with other parts of the country. Our home prices are quite reasonable as are other cost of living prices. Yes, our property taxes are somewhat high but those taxes pay for a lot of quality of life tangibles that some other states do not provide their citizens. Our population - not too bad. We ARE NOT looking for hundreds of thousands of new people to move to our region with all the resulting congestion, crime, endless traffic jams, and other bad aspects which result. We are happy with stable or slow growth and attracting quality people who appreciate stability and the quality of life features our region offers. Too much/fast population growth and too much/speculative development could ruin the quality of life features which are abundant here now, which we enjoy tremendously, and we would hate to have those quality features ruined. In my previous post above, the figures I listed are laudible. Syracuse & other Upstate Cities unemployment rates ARE BETTER than the National average and better than States like Florida, California, & Nevada. Syracuse & New York State as a whole has MUCH BETTER home foreclosure rates than States such as Nevada #1 highest, Florida #2 highest and increasing, Arizona #3 highest, California; New York State is #40 on the list. Yeah. We like being STABLE with slow fluctuations and less upheaval!

?? Syracuse has SPRAWL ?? I don't see it. Do you want to CROWD everybody who lives in all the suburbs into HIGH-RISE BUILDINGS within the boundries of the City of Syracuse?? FORGET IT!! People who live in the Suburbs want and like to live in the suburbs; NOT in CITY CONDOS/APARTMENTS. ?? SPRAWL ?? When Metro Syracuse occupies most of its County plus half of Oswego County and half of Madison County, come back and tell me that there is SPRAWL and I MIGHT agree with you. Until then, THERE'S NO SPRAWL!! What we have so far is natural to-be-expected suburban development! Yeah. We have several major business areas which serve residents who live nearby. Business area=Route 31 @ Interstate 481 which serves people living in northern Liverpool, Clay, Phoenix, Pennelville, Radisson, Baldwinsville & some from Fulton. Seems natural to me for those area residents to have a CENTRAL business area near where they live. >>>> Syracuse City did not always exist. It grew from small to larger along the original Barge Canal that ran through downtown Syracuse. I guess you would have liked it if the original small 3000 population Syracuse [not the original name for Syracuse] had restrictions on development back-in-the-day so that Syracuse would have remained 3000 population! <<<< GIVE ME A BREAK!! Another business area=Brewerton Rd./Rt 11 which runs through and serves residents of Cicero, Clay, Brewerton, Bridgeport, North Syracuse, Mattydale, & Central Square. Do you expect those residents to drive to Dewitt or Great Northern to shop?? A SENSELESS IDEA!! Another business area=Erie Blvd East @ Bridge St. which serves Dewitt, East Syracuse, Minoa, Kirkville, Syracuse, Jamesville, Manlius, Fayetteville, Chittenango, LaFayette, & Pompey. Natural development in my eyes. Another business area=West Genesee St. @ Rt. 173 which serves Fairmount, Camillus, Lakeland, Geddes, Warners, Onondaga Hill, Marcellus, Elbridge, & Jordon. Boy! Somebody's GOT TO STOP THIS NATURAL DEVELOPMENT!! Okay, we've got to build a tall concrete wall around the current existing Suburban & Syracuse City already developed area and NO ONE can build anything more outside that CONCRETE WALL or else!!

Last edited by grdnrman; 10-11-2010 at 11:47 AM..
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:04 PM
 
56,252 posts, read 80,408,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
syracuse has its share of sprawl outside of downtown, but within city limits. What would you call Erie blvd? What about all of the sprawl towards the north of syracuse (Clay is a big example of suburban big-box sprawl).

The only city that really annexed a ton of land to make itself look bigger was Jacksonville, FL, and anyone who knows this knows that it's ridiculous that Jacksonville says it has 1.3 million people (when in reality, most of those people live in the county, not the city).
While there is some sprawl, it doesn't even compare to the sprawl in many, if not most other cities in other regions.

Erie Boulevard is infill for the former Erie Canal and something had to be done along that corridor. I agree that there is some sprawl in the Northern suburbs, but is probably the only area where the sprawl is "silly". Much of that has to do with trying to appease the growth in parts of Oswego County that have grown close by(Phoenix and Central Square SD's).

As for Jacksonville, all it did was make Jacksonville and Duval County one and the same. If you look at other Florida cities besides maybe Miami, you would probably find some relatively recent annexation. To put things into perspective, Buffalo is about 40 sq. mi. of land, while Tampa is around 112 sq. mi.
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Old 10-11-2010, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
580 posts, read 1,013,651 times
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Exactly what CKH said. The retail strip along Erie Blvd. East is horrible urban design, and I don't like it, but it's not sprawl at all - it's just bad infill development built up on industrial land left vacant after first the Erie Canal and then the New York Central Railroad were removed from that area.

There is some sprawl in the northern and eastern suburbs, and this is not good for our community, but it is nothing like the sprawl in Raleigh, Orlando, suburban Washington, and nearly every other Sun Belt city.

(I'm not sure what the argument is at this stage, but those are a couple points that needed to be seconded.)

For what it's worth, government consolidation and the setting of urban growth boundaries would improve local quality of life and enable Syracuse to better compete with its real peer cities in the Northeast for young, college-educated would-be city-dwellers (not the type who'd consider cities in Florida very favorably when compared to Syracuse).
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Florida
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I did not read through all the posts, but I did not think that the ABC report was very flattering. There was a lot left out that could have provided a hopeful glimpse into Syracuse's future as a knowledge green-based economy.
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Old 10-11-2010, 07:23 PM
 
56,252 posts, read 80,408,935 times
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Originally Posted by urbanplanner View Post
I did not read through all the posts, but I did not think that the ABC report was very flattering. There was a lot left out that could have provided a hopeful glimpse into Syracuse's future as a knowledge green-based economy.
I think after watching the segment, people realized that many aspects were left out like the below average unemployment rate, the biotech center, the new projects in and around the city, the Say Yes initiative and the affordable, but stable housing market, among other things.
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Old 10-12-2010, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,668 posts, read 2,380,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I think after watching the segment, people realized that many aspects were left out like the below average unemployment rate, the biotech center, the new projects in and around the city, the Say Yes initiative and the affordable, but stable housing market, among other things.
exactly ckhthankgod, excellent points, plus the Center of Excellnce, university expansions, the spinal cord facility at the VA. Isn't Upstate about to build a Cancer research center on Adams Street?
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Old 10-12-2010, 07:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Park View Post
There is some sprawl in the northern and eastern suburbs, and this is not good for our community, but it is nothing like the sprawl in Raleigh, Orlando, suburban Washington, and nearly every other Sun Belt city.

For what it's worth, government consolidation and the setting of urban growth boundaries would improve local quality of life and enable Syracuse to better compete with its real peer cities in the Northeast for young, college-educated would-be city-dwellers (not the type who'd consider cities in Florida very favorably when compared to Syracuse).
What is that even supposed to mean? Have you spent any appreciable amount of time in the urban core of the cities that you're trashing?

I'd put the young professional population of cities like Orlando and Miami against the young professional population of syracuse any day of the week.

There is a decent financial district in both cities, and plenty of night life in their respective downtowns after 5 pm. And in both cases, the area is far greater in size and activity than what you will find in downtown syracuse (which is mainly limited to Armory Square).

Downtown Orlando is historic and extremely walkable with a good deal of mix-use space. This is also true of the surrounding areas near downtown including winter park, thornton park, and college park. Of course no one ever really explores Orlando outside of I-drive and the theme parks, so many people don't know these areas even exist.

Last edited by chopchop0; 10-12-2010 at 08:26 PM..
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Old 10-12-2010, 09:06 PM
 
357 posts, read 834,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
What is that even supposed to mean? Have you spent any appreciable amount of time in the urban core of the cities that you're trashing?

I'd put the young professional population of cities like Orlando and Miami against the young professional population of syracuse any day of the week.

There is a decent financial district in both cities, and plenty of night life in their respective downtowns after 5 pm. And in both cases, the area is far greater in size and activity than what you will find in downtown syracuse (which is mainly limited to Armory Square).

Downtown Orlando is historic and extremely walkable with a good deal of mix-use space. This is also true of the surrounding areas near downtown including winter park, thornton park, and college park. Of course no one ever really explores Orlando outside of I-drive and the theme parks, so many people don't know these areas even exist.

Thank you for reminding us all the greatness of Orlando compared to Syracuse, you hadn't reminded us in the last few days so "gasp" we almost forgot!

By the way it's very interesting that you spent 4 years in Syracuse as a student and that somehow makes you an expert on the Syracuse economy, it's people, activities, ect. Students often have a very narrow view of the cities in which they live because they never really contribute to those areas in any substantial way. Florida I'm sure is happy to have you, we as well are happy Florida has you.

PS I'm not going to reply to any more of your posts on this thread so feel free to do your usual game of "I'm right and your wrong" by replying to this post as I know you will. I have to listen to my kids play that game all day long and I really don't have the patience to play it with a grown adult.
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