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Unread 06-01-2011, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
3,246 posts, read 2,412,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
You do realize that there are more affordable areas in Upstate NY and SC has a high crime rate as a state. My mom is originally from there. So, this doesn't have any thing to do with hating SC. Schools can be suspect down there and it can get as hot there the way it can get cold up here. Communities are pretty sprawled out. So, you probably have to drive more than you would here to get places. I don't understand how water costs so much in compariaon and I'm sure that the AC is on from late May to September, if not into early October. I was at Ft. Jackson for Basic Training and would go to my mom's hometown, near Myrtle Beach a lot as a kid.
SC doesn't have a high crime rate all over. There are certain areas that do just as ALL states do. NY doesn't have great schools either. When NY hits #1, then NY can talk about other states. Where I live in SC, it's one of the best school districts in the state. All of the schools in my area are all federal award winning.

Myrtle Beach has a lot of problems. A lot of that is because it's nothing but a tourist town. It's full of retirees who don't care about schools because it doesn't affect them directly so they think. They're just worried about $$$$. I live a good 4+ hours away from Myrtle Beach.

My a/c has been on since April, but my bills here are far less. I have an electric co-op that the state runs and is far cheaper than National Grid. Our heating bills up in NY were way more than double what our a/c bills are here. I've been spending much less than half in utilities the last year compared to our NY bills. We're talking several thousand dollars here. It's really amazing to me the difference.

Water is not less in the South in all areas. The water bill in NY went up just before we moved and it was set to go up again.

The city I lived in had real major financial problems long before this economic downturn. There's no business there and tons of vacants lots and factories. They have to collect taxes to pay for what's not being collected from those deadbeats. Why would a city foreclose on a brownfield site? They can't do anything with it. They seriously need to consolidate many services and cut back. It's not even a good school district! So the money isn't being spent making the students excel in life.
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Unread 06-01-2011, 05:46 PM
Status: "It's a setup" (set 26 days ago)
 
27,061 posts, read 30,575,581 times
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NY is different than most states, as NYC schools make up a huge portion of the public schools in the state. So, there are many great options throughout Upstate NY in many metros. I'm sure SC has some good schools, but let's not act like Upstate NY doesn't have plenty. Just in your old metro, districts like Niskayuna, North Colonie, Guilderland, Shenendehowa, Burnt Hills-Ballston Lake, East Greenbush, Bethlehem and some others are great SD's.

While crime does vary, SC as a state has a relatively high crime rate. This even goes into some small towns.

I guess you didn't realize that many Upstate NY communities have energy coops as well. Just take a look: New York Power Authority: About Us So, you can find communities with low power costs and NationalGrid is only one choice in Upstate NY. There's NYSEG, Rochester Gas and Electric and there are some private vendors as well.
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Unread 06-01-2011, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
3,246 posts, read 2,412,783 times
Reputation: 2626
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
NY is different than most states, as NYC schools make up a huge portion of the public schools in the state. So, there are many great options throughout Upstate NY in many metros. I'm sure SC has some good schools, but let's not act like Upstate NY doesn't have plenty. Just in your old metro, districts like Niskayuna, North Colonie, Guilderland, Shenendehowa, Burnt Hills-Ballston Lake, East Greenbush, Bethlehem and some others are great SD's.

While crime does vary, SC as a state has a relatively high crime rate. This even goes into some small towns.

I guess you didn't realize that many Upstate NY communities have energy coops as well. Just take a look: New York Power Authority: About Us So, you can find communities with low power costs and NationalGrid is only one choice in Upstate NY. There's NYSEG, Rochester Gas and Electric and there are some private vendors as well.
I am well aware of Upstate NY schools. I attended 3 of them. And they all sucked and have seriously gone down hill since I was in school. There are MANY schools in Upstate that are on the verge of state takeover not that will really fix the school's actual problems.

SC has a lot of tourism and most of the higher crime areas are around that. Drunk tourists don't always do the brightest things. The things that happen daily during the summer in Myrtle Beach make me wonder about people.

I know there are energy co-ops in NY. There was only one in the Albany area. It was for one town. And it was NOT inexpensive. In the Albany area there is no choice for utilities. You can choose a different company for delivery, however, none of them are actually less than National Grid. You're still paying National Grid for some parts of it. The local news did a story on this. One of the anchors changed to one of the companies that just did the delivery and he got royally screwed over. Without him being in the media, he couldn't imagine getting out of the contract. It cost him almost double so he didn't save a cent.
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Unread 06-01-2011, 08:27 PM
Status: "It's a setup" (set 26 days ago)
 
27,061 posts, read 30,575,581 times
Reputation: 5400
Albany is one area of Upstate NY and other parts have coops that are indeed inexpensive. So, that 1 coop must be the exception.

Also, where are these "many" Upstate schools that need a state takeover? Outside of the bigger urban districts and maybe a couple of smaller cities, that is news to me. Trust me when I say that SC standards are still relatively lower. Go look at a list of top schools as well. Even at bad Upstate NY schools, you find kids going to Ivy League and other very good colleges.

Again, while SC gets it's share of tourism, it has some high crimes cities and even the town my mom is from(Mullins) has a crime rate that is higher than Syracuse's, but is the size of Ballston Spa. Florence is no joke. Same with North Charleston and some others. NY gets it's share of tourists as well.
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Unread 06-02-2011, 01:54 AM
 
Location: SENIOR MEMBER
654 posts, read 1,029,278 times
Reputation: 855
Default The "Grass is Browner"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
NY is different than most states, as NYC schools make up a huge portion of the public schools in the state. So, there are many great options throughout Upstate NY in many metros. I'm sure SC has some good schools, but let's not act like Upstate NY doesn't have plenty. Just in your old metro, districts like Niskayuna, North Colonie, Guilderland, Shenendehowa, Burnt Hills-Ballston Lake, East Greenbush, Bethlehem and some others are great SD's.

While crime does vary, SC as a state has a relatively high crime rate. This even goes into some small towns.

I guess you didn't realize that many Upstate NY communities have energy coops as well. Just take a look: New York Power Authority: About Us So, you can find communities with low power costs and NationalGrid is only one choice in Upstate NY. There's NYSEG, Rochester Gas and Electric and there are some private vendors as well.
Hello ckhthankgod,

I agree with you entirely on this subject ckhthankgod!

It's hardly worth discussing some of these things with anyone who thinks the "grass is greener" in SC. I have had contact with MANY people who moved from the north to the southern states and they can hardly wait to move away from the south back to the northern states where "Quality Of Life" aspects are better.

Statistics and actual money payments we make for services here in NYS vs. SC or other areas in the south, will not convince those transplanted people who are still deliriously enthralled with the "thought" that things are better in the south when reality (proof on paper) proves the opposite is the true. I'll take (gladly live in) any of the Northeastern States any day over existing in the south.

Crime is worse in the south. And P-L-E-A-S-E southerners, don't try to blame the high crime rate on visitors/tourists--the crime rate comes mostly from your local residents. Bigotry and discrimination are big problems that continue their ugliness which residents there "make-believe" don't exist. Schools are worse and the educational standards (look at the statistics) are lower. Some of their teachers would not/could not even qualify to teach in NY State schools because their educational qualifications don't meet NYS or Northeastern standards.

Regarding a couple service bills. When I lived "down-south", my electric/gas bill was a MINIMUM of $300 EVERY month and that was several years ago; probably be even more nowdays. Currently here in Upstate NY, my electric/gas bill never exceeds $250 a month for the COLDEST month of the year when we use the most supply; other months the cost is lower and sometines its half that high price. The highest my water supply bill has ever been is $35 for three full months; that's about $11.67 per month. I doubt you'll ever see those kind of low prices in the south with all the droughts in the south that we all have heard about on National Television in recent years. And food costs. When I lived "down-south" I thought the food prices would be lower there because I thought they must grow a lot of food crops there--WRONG!! Food prices were higher in the south. I can buy food less expensively at Wegman's and farmers markets (fresh food) and at Aldi's than I could in the south.

ckhthankgod, sometimes we have to give some transplants time for the "grass is BROWNER" in those sun-belt states to be realized/valid and for those transplants to conclude that their Northern home town actually offers a better "Quality Of Life" at an overall similar or lower cost of living.

I don't expect to convince those transplants the validity of what I'm saying here. Only time and experience living in their new sun-belt location can teach them that.
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Unread 06-02-2011, 03:34 AM
 
Location: Oneida
2,226 posts, read 1,229,659 times
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Everyone, myself included, states things as facts for all when (in "fact") they are facts only for that person in that place.

Like for example I find your heat bills to sound about right and frankly even abit high. But then I am cheap and can stand the cold. I often here from other people, most often those with small children, 300 and even 400 dollar bills.

Contrast that with my Father in Florida. He loves the heat and only runs the heat on the very worst days and only down to 85 or so then. His bills never go over a 100 in July and much lower the rest. Would you be one of those Yankees that move South and set the thermostat at 60 then cry about the bill?? My Grandmother lived in Florida from 1969 til last year WITH NO AC!!!! Her place had no heater so for all intents and purposes her bills were zero for 40 years. Many people live like that in the South. None do in the North, at least until they blow the water pipes up.

Water is cheap for you in CNY but brutal for others. I work with a guy with 3 teenage daughters. His bill is about 300 every 3. Thats roughly 10 times your bill within 25 miles. Which of you is right?? Mine is 3 times yours and I live alone.

Tomorrow I leave to take a family member to Seattle. She lived in NY for 55 years so she knows it well. Then Seattle for 10 years. And most recently NY for 2. Number one reason for leaving this area?? Cost of living. She can live cheaper and have more to do plus see the Sun more.

Or are these people just stupid?? Can they not read a utility bill?? When they go to a store for food can they not tell that more money equals more money?? Are people in CNY, the "Unofficial Home of NASCAR and Walmart" just that much smarter then everyone else??

I think we need to standardize what we are talking about. Normal for each area not sq/ft. Because they spend so much time away from home I've noticed homes (outside the Mcmansion areas) are much smaller in the South. So I'd guess something like "normal" here would be about 1500 sq/ft and in Florida say 1000. Then I'd say 2 adults that shower everyday and are otherwise normal. Then "normal" temps of 70 for the heat up here (mine is 50!!!) and 80 for AC down there. Lot size should be normal, not acreage or built on to each other.

Very often I think people live in an apartment and say NY is cheap compared to "my Uncle in Florida". You know the Uncle, 4000 sq/ft house with the AC set on STUN and the heated pool and 5 acre irrigation system. And visa versa of coarse.

Last edited by Sean®; 06-02-2011 at 04:26 AM..
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Unread 06-02-2011, 05:33 AM
Status: "It's a setup" (set 26 days ago)
 
27,061 posts, read 30,575,581 times
Reputation: 5400
Seattle having a lower COL than CNY? Really?

Also, look at a COL calculator or a local realtor website and compare. Even a state like TX makes up the no income tax with high property and sales taxes. Basically, they get you somewhere else. You can get a decent home for under 100k around here in a good SD. That is rare "Down South", if it is even possible. You don't have to liive in a gatted community either and pay HOA's. Sometimes a 4000 sq. ft. home comes with more maintenance issues too.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 06-02-2011 at 05:55 AM..
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Unread 06-02-2011, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Outer University - Syracuse
686 posts, read 730,335 times
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I have friends in the Seattle area. If you've lived there for many years, are on the outskirts and already own your home... it may be cheaper (especially for utilities) but the number of overcast days every year is roughly the same as Syracuse (albeit with lots of rain and very little snow - and that's not a bad thing.)

Sean makes a good point about comparative costs as they relate to size of dwelling and lifestyle. I have a colleague who sold his Dewitt "McMansion" after the kids went to college and bought a 2 BR condo in FL close to his mom's place. Based on a purchase price of $127K he is paying about $2,000 per year in total taxes vs. the $3,500 you woudl pay in Dewitt for a house of that market value. His utility bills there (1200 sq feet) have been averaging about 1/2 of what he pays for utilities at a comparably sized condo up in Alex Bay that he and his wife still own and visit during the summer.

The biggest savings for him has been personal income tax. No income tax in FL but a fairly hefty rate in NY. He's a sales rep with high income levels and is probably saving at least $15K if not more just in the reduced levels of income tax he now pays.

All of that being said and done... he still misses living here.
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Unread 06-02-2011, 03:02 PM
 
1,456 posts, read 1,637,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaelon56 View Post
I have friends in the Seattle area. If you've lived there for many years, are on the outskirts and already own your home... it may be cheaper (especially for utilities) but the number of overcast days every year is roughly the same as Syracuse (albeit with lots of rain and very little snow - and that's not a bad thing.)

Sean makes a good point about comparative costs as they relate to size of dwelling and lifestyle. I have a colleague who sold his Dewitt "McMansion" after the kids went to college and bought a 2 BR condo in FL close to his mom's place. Based on a purchase price of $127K he is paying about $2,000 per year in total taxes vs. the $3,500 you woudl pay in Dewitt for a house of that market value. His utility bills there (1200 sq feet) have been averaging about 1/2 of what he pays for utilities at a comparably sized condo up in Alex Bay that he and his wife still own and visit during the summer.

The biggest savings for him has been personal income tax. No income tax in FL but a fairly hefty rate in NY. He's a sales rep with high income levels and is probably saving at least $15K if not more just in the reduced levels of income tax he now pays.

All of that being said and done... he still misses living here.

Aside from very low property taxes, the overall COL in Seattle is higher than Syracuse unless you live in one of the seedy communities in South (King) County like Tukwila, Federal Way, and virtually anything within earshot of Sea-Tack. That area makes the Route 11 corridor in Salina look like the ritz. Places like Everett and Renton may have a low COL but are not destinations for gainfullly employed out-of-staters.

Desirable communities like Bellevue, Mercer Island, Redmond, and Issaquah will cost you plenty; although property taxes are very reasonable. My cousin pays only $4,000 in property taxes for a 3,100 square foot home in Bellevue that is probably worth at least $700,000 and in one of the best school districts in suburban Seattle.
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Unread 06-02-2011, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Oneida
2,226 posts, read 1,229,659 times
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People in NY always assume you need heat/AC because here we do. But in the South one doesn't have to have anything if one so chooses. So when people say utilities are higher in the South I'm always like WTF?? They can be zero if you want them to be. Its a failing of NY schools that people think people didn't live in hot climates prior to AC. I lived in Florida for 6 years in 3 different places only one of which had AC.

My heat and lights here in NY run about 200 a month (budget plan) for heat, AC, cooking you name it. Thats about 2500 a year which would be 25k in ten years. Now my Grandmother lived in Florida for 40 years so 100K (she did use some power but I'm not adjusting for inflation either). 100K invested very conservatively over a 40 year period is a pretty good nut

So people should say "if I moved South I would run my AC like a fool 24/7/365 and MY bill would be as high as NY". Normal people will save half or even more all the way down to near zero.

Now gated(gatted??) communities?? I've heard them brought up here before. WTF?? I know they exist. Prolly in NY also. But I've never even seen one and I head South often. I've driven in an area near St. Augustine with homes in the million dollar range and they let me in with my old hooptie. I think maybe people are reading to much stuff on the innerweb.

And again if the innerweb says Seattle is expensive it must be true?? I happen to think it is expensive compared to normal states but its cheaper then Upstate NY by some and Downstate by a crap load. My sisters house is very much like mine. The area is much the same. The schools are vastly better and the crime is much lower but overall its very similar. She paid several times more then me, we are both on 30 year normal mortgages with similar terms. But her actual payment is a good bit lower then mine due to the taxes. Then of coarse no income tax. So say 100 bucks a month less plus the 3k in income taxes I pay. Right there is 4k mad money. Sales tax is about the same. Car registration is about the same many things are about the same. Except that 4 grand. Generally speaking wages are higher out there so the income tax savings will most likely be higher.
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