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Old 06-02-2011, 05:08 PM
 
269 posts, read 365,235 times
Reputation: 155
Very interesting discussion.

I say, Sean, if you hate it here so much...than bon voyage! Be forewarned though, many many folks have left for greener pastures only to hate it and return. And I'm not just referring to the exodus in and out of NY.

Hey...maybe you'll leave and love it. Life is what you make it and what you perceive it to be.

My husband and I just relocated our family of six from RI to the Finger Lakes. And we L.O.V.E. it. It's MUCH more affordable here.

Our home in RI is a two family with a small 3rd floor in-law apartment. It sits on .17 acre. It's in a neighborhood that once was full of proud Portuguese families. But slowly, these families have aged and have been replaced by trash. Our neighboring town of Central Falls is a one mile scum hole and slowly, its residents are creeping into our old neighborhood.

We bought our house in 2004 for 270k. Yes. 270k. It's now worth around 160k. A comparable property here in NY would be far less than 100k.

Our property taxes are around 4k a year. Our homeowners' policy was 1100k a year. It's not a flood zone. We just forked over almost $500 for road taxes. We'll fork over at least $400 more for fire taxes this year. We also pay a sewer tax, a sewer assessment fee, water, and an additional monthly bill that I'm not even sure what it's for.

Our gas is just as costly in RI as it is here in NY.

We've cut our food budget by 20% since we left RI. It was less expensive for our vehicle inspections and I think even our registrations.

We're buying a 3500 home on 3 acres...for 115k. Annual property taxes are just over 2k a year. A similar home in RI would have been over 200k. Easily. And in a prime market...probably over 300k. Our homeowner's is much less expensive. Our vehicle insurance costs were halved.

Schools...well, we homeschool. But we homeschool because we don't believe the classroom environment is conducive to effective and quality education for the vast majority of kids. Especially boys.

Even so, the school system in our new town looks really nice. Much nicer than what we were use to in RI and we had some good schools in RI.

That's not to say the folks here are getting a good education. My husband DID walk into the walmart and ask a cashier where they kept flour sifters. She may or may not have directed him to the gardening department...8-l

People said my husband would make a lot less here. He makes $1/hr less.

So far, we love the lifestyle here. It's beautiful and very affordable for our single income family.

We explored other parts of the country. We knew we wanted to stay away from tornado-prone areas (and we're thankful for that). We also knew we wanted to stay away from the heavy heat.

I'm thinking we found a pretty darn good spot here. I know our budget certainly is faring well.

Perspective...it's all about perspective.
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:24 PM
 
Location: SENIOR MEMBER
654 posts, read 1,181,868 times
Reputation: 861
Default $350,000 buys a Syracuse mini-Mansion/In Seattle it buys you a Small 1920's Bungalow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean® View Post
Everyone, myself included, states things as facts for all when (in "fact") they are facts only for that person in that place.

Like for example I find your heat bills to sound about right and frankly even abit high. But then I am cheap and can stand the cold. I often here from other people, most often those with small children, 300 and even 400 dollar bills.

Contrast that with my Father in Florida. He loves the heat and only runs the heat on the very worst days and only down to 85 or so then. His bills never go over a 100 in July and much lower the rest. Would you be one of those Yankees that move South and set the thermostat at 60 then cry about the bill?? My Grandmother lived in Florida from 1969 til last year WITH NO AC!!!! Her place had no heater so for all intents and purposes her bills were zero for 40 years. Many people live like that in the South. None do in the North, at least until they blow the water pipes up.

Water is cheap for you in CNY but brutal for others. I work with a guy with 3 teenage daughters. His bill is about 300 every 3. Thats roughly 10 times your bill within 25 miles. Which of you is right?? Mine is 3 times yours and I live alone.

Tomorrow I leave to take a family member to Seattle. She lived in NY for 55 years so she knows it well. Then Seattle for 10 years. And most recently NY for 2. Number one reason for leaving this area?? Cost of living. She can live cheaper and have more to do plus see the Sun more.

Or are these people just stupid?? Can they not read a utility bill?? When they go to a store for food can they not tell that more money equals more money?? Are people in CNY, the "Unofficial Home of NASCAR and Walmart" just that much smarter then everyone else??

I think we need to standardize what we are talking about. Normal for each area not sq/ft. Because they spend so much time away from home I've noticed homes (outside the Mcmansion areas) are much smaller in the South. So I'd guess something like "normal" here would be about 1500 sq/ft and in Florida say 1000. Then I'd say 2 adults that shower everyday and are otherwise normal. Then "normal" temps of 70 for the heat up here (mine is 50!!!) and 80 for AC down there. Lot size should be normal, not acreage or built on to each other.

Very often I think people live in an apartment and say NY is cheap compared to "my Uncle in Florida". You know the Uncle, 4000 sq/ft house with the AC set on STUN and the heated pool and 5 acre irrigation system. And visa versa of coarse.
Sorry Sean, I just don't believe your "facts" are accurate or factual or realistic.

An electric bill in HOT - HUMID Florida that NEVER goes over $100 in July? I don't believe that for one second OR does your father live in a 200 square foot one room studio apartment? $100 a month for electric & gas is in NO WAY an average residential cost = you can check with the Florida power company (as I did) and they will tell you $100 will NOT cover the cost of any one month's bill for the majority of their customers. In contrast, my last month's electric & gas bill was $124; I'm sure that your bill Sean, was closer to ZERO--Right? And Sean, your Grandmother's bill was practically ZERO for 40 years? Surely you jest or exaggerate. Sean, my parents didn't raise any idiots. OR maybe your Grandmother was in poverty and couldn't afford power usage; I'm sorry if that was her case.

Sorry about your higher water bill and your friend's higher water bill. I chose to live in the Suburban Syracuse area and all I can say is that $35 IS my water bill for 3 months. Larger families in suburban Syracuse probably have higher bills than mine. I don't skimp on water usage; I water my gardens and lawn and do the usual household activities and wash my vehicle. Maybe you should get involved with your local water supply company/service and assist them with developing/establishing a better, more economical water supply source which could bring down the water costs; is your water supplier "gouging" you customers in what you pay for water=are they getting rich at your expense? You should check into it if you are not happy. Many OLD water supply companies/suppliers over the years have NOT updated their water sources and infrastructure thus they have not remained current with today's customers requirements. Rather than make improvements over the years, they've "pocketed" the service income while the water supply needs become antiquated and they just keep raising prices because no one regulates or stops them. Maybe the State should require your water supply company to offer a more adequate, more reasonably priced water supply. I'm sure if Metro Syracuse can offer a reasonably priced water supply, then some FORWARD thinking people in Oneida/Durhamville/Sherrill/Verona/Vernon/Wampsville/Canastota/wherever can develop a modernized water supply system that could serve your whole larger area with healthy clean water at reasonable prices. There must be clean-water springs and clean-water streams in the hills above your towns that could be bought and serve as clean, safe, drinking water supply sources to serve all your towns. THERE, that's a "cause" you can get involved in and be proud to work on and help develop for the people living in your larger area.

Cheaper to live in Seattle=NOT!! You can't pull that falsehood; my brother lives there and lives very modestly and it's very expensive unless you want to live in the ghetto, poverty, crime, low-class, gang neighborhoods. More Sunshine in Seattle than Syracuse=again-NOT!! While Syracuse experiences more inches of rain in ONE rainfall, Seattle has more continuous, long-lasting, never-ending, perpetual, lighter maybe mistier rainfall week after week along with the sunless gray cloudy skies. Seattle is constantly referred to on TV News programs, weather reports and on TV shows as having perpetual rainfall; Seattle's known for the Space Needle and perpetual Rainfall!! People in Seattle suffer from depression based on the never-ending rain and cloudy skies. Cost of living cheaper in Seattle=WRONG AGAIN!! (Remember, my brother lives there and we discuss everything; he also used to live in Metro Syracuse where HE was happy BUT his new wife runs things, so they now live in Seattle so SHE can be close to HER family. My brother and his wife now have a lower Quality of Life because everything IS more expensive in Seattle). More to do in Seattle. You got one RIGHT!! I'm sure there can be more to do in Seattle. Cost of homes in a DECENT, non-crime, middle-class neighborhood in Seattle. A typical 1920's - 1930's built bungalow NOT up-graded sells for $350,000 in Seattle, whereas in Metro Syracuse the same type of house and neighborhood, that same house would sell here for $85,000 to $95,000 and NO higher. I've seen those Seattle bungalows and I'm absolutely SHOCKED by that outrageous price; I can have a mini-mansion here in Metro Syracuse for that price!! I'd never buy that price house in Seattle; I'd just LAUGH and LAUGH and LAUGH at the real estate agent and tell him/her, "Don't insult my intelligence with silly, ridiculous prices like that. My parents didn't raise any idiots. I didn't just get off the Ship of Fools. Call me when you have homes available at REALISTIC prices".

Needless to say Sean, we both see things quite differently. I have my researched facts which I'm very certain about. I have no ill-feelings toward you. We just have different outlooks on a lot of subjects; but as you may have noticed, sometimes we agree on certain things.

Sean, I wish you the best and I hope that you have a nice, pleasant, enjoyable trip to Seattle.
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Old 06-03-2011, 04:43 AM
 
2,356 posts, read 2,905,232 times
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It's true that you don't NEED AC in the south... but what kind of quality of life will that give you? Not much. My friends' home in the Triangle area of NC is an old, classic bungalow, designed to keep the house as cool as possible. Wide eves, dense foliage to purify the air, higher-than-typical ceilings, slate floors, strategically placed ceiling fans. They're skinny and love warmth, which is part of why they decided to move there for grad school... that and the cheap tuition for residents. They could have gone to school up here for about the same cost.

They're eco-buffs and use as little energy as possible... don't have television, microwave, retrofitted an electric range and hooked that and the fridge up to a few solar panels they installed on the roof. Before they even bought the house, they sold their cars and scooters and held a moving-house "bike rally", among friends, to move their belongings in carts and trailers.

Suffice to say, they don't use extra electricity unless they feel they MUST.

Their AC is on for the vast majority of this time of year. It's not the heat... it's the suffocating humidity and the bugs attracted to them and the house because of it.
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Old 06-03-2011, 04:54 AM
 
Location: nj
1,406 posts, read 749,971 times
Reputation: 1431
Instead of cutting taxes, why don't businesses cut prices? Then maybe taxes would go down.
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Old 06-03-2011, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Oneida
2,489 posts, read 1,512,101 times
Reputation: 838
My bill zero?? Hardly I ran the heat right up til I ran the AC. I got 3 AC units running right now, last night was a pretty easy run for them. I like it chilly which is why as I've stated I'm a poor match for Florida.

Now even though in one post you called my Grandmother a welfare case and an idiot, my Father a liar and an idiot, my Mother and Sister a liars and idiots and of coarse me a lair and idiot I must refrain from even suggesting you are anything more then a silly goose or I will get blown in again like last weekend. You guys are soon to get your wish as I am a heartbeat away from having "Not a Member" under my name.

So I am gonna type this r e a l s l o w. MANY PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE SOUTH LIKE THE HEAT. Power needs for many are what?? Many people eat out. They don't need alarm clocks in many cases. AC is rarely if ever used. Heat is never used. Lottsa older people aren't big on computers and TV.

Your basically comparing one of those estates with pools and hot tubs with full irrigation systems to a small house in suburban Syracuse.

But what I am doing is comparing same person to same person. In NY I live very modestly, mostly because of taxes but much is by choice. So if I moved South I would save a fortune. Another forum I am on is mostly Southern natives and you do know most people haven't even turned the AC on at all this year and when they do it will only be for afew hours at night.

STOP LISTENING TO TRANSPLANTS!!!!!!

The water is what it is. City owned. Its a fact that water in this part of CNY is brutal. If you have found a cheap spot you need to say that. You, and others, say things like cheap water, no flood insurance, low taxes and stuff. Maybe thats true of the little islands you have craved out but you need to say that. If you say water is cheap in<insert name of town> I know nothing of it and will never comment. If you say water is cheap in CNY/Upstate NY/ Syracuse MSA or whatever you are either lying outright or simply don't know what your talking about.

And thank you I will have a nice trip. I decided to skip Detroit and spend the time in the mountains. Which means I wasted the time and 42 dollars on the Enhanced DL but what the heck I can go to Montreal now. So anyone near the Western NY border today that see's the small grey car waving his finger at NY thats me.
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Old 06-03-2011, 05:12 AM
 
Location: Oneida
2,489 posts, read 1,512,101 times
Reputation: 838
Quote:
Originally Posted by proulxfamily View Post
It's true that you don't NEED AC in the south... but what kind of quality of life will that give you? Not much. My friends' home in the Triangle area of NC is an old, classic bungalow, designed to keep the house as cool as possible. Wide eves, dense foliage to purify the air, higher-than-typical ceilings, slate floors, strategically placed ceiling fans. They're skinny and love warmth, which is part of why they decided to move there for grad school... that and the cheap tuition for residents. They could have gone to school up here for about the same cost.

They're eco-buffs and use as little energy as possible... don't have television, microwave, retrofitted an electric range and hooked that and the fridge up to a few solar panels they installed on the roof. Before they even bought the house, they sold their cars and scooters and held a moving-house "bike rally", among friends, to move their belongings in carts and trailers.

Suffice to say, they don't use extra electricity unless they feel they MUST.

Their AC is on for the vast majority of this time of year. It's not the heat... it's the suffocating humidity and the bugs attracted to them and the house because of it.

Again I think your talking about transplants. The South wasn't invented after AC. Millions of people lived there even before electricity. And even when they do run AC its only down to 85ish. I lived down there for abit back in the late 60's and early 70's and almost nobody had AC. And life was fine. I heard more people crying hear on Wednesday then I ever heard in Florida. I loved it but can't sleep in it.

Do you turn your heat up to 80 in the Winter?? Most don't because they don't like the 1000 bills. Well do you think people in the South set the AC on 60 and just expect it to be free?? The battle between comfort and money is fought where ever you live.
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Old 06-03-2011, 05:33 AM
 
269 posts, read 365,235 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean® View Post
Again I think your talking about transplants. The South wasn't invented after AC. Millions of people lived there even before electricity. And even when they do run AC its only down to 85ish. I lived down there for abit back in the late 60's and early 70's and almost nobody had AC. And life was fine. I heard more people crying hear on Wednesday then I ever heard in Florida. I loved it but can't sleep in it.
Sean, seriously....if you think you're going to move down south and save a fortune than have at it my friend. Have at it. Just...dont' be shocked when it doesn't quite work out that way for ya.

In regards to the above quote...I have friends all over the south. Most of them were born and raised there. Texas, Louisiana, California, the Carolinas, etc. A friend of mine from Texas posted a facebook image last week of her outside thermometer. 99 degrees. Hey, you go with your bad self and have fun with that! Most of them, even the ones that are southern born and bred, have a difficult time tolerating the heat.

Hope your'e planning on a pool...oh, but the costs involved with a pool...

Oh....you're not going to move to Texas? Virginia you say? They're not much better my friend. Not much better at all.

I mean, you just said yourself that you like it cool. How are you planning on tolerating that kind of heat when you're body isn't use to it? Did you know that the blood thickens and thins according to the weather and that people in the north have thicker blood (which makes us warmer and also explains why 60 degrees feels down right balmy in March but freezing in August).

But again...if that's what you want, if that's what you like, if it's worth it to you to live in heat to avoid the super high taxes here in NY, than have at it! What's good for me isn't necessarily good for you...and what's good for you isn't necessarily what's good for me.

Now...as far as water costs go. My family and I have hardly carved out a little island here in NY. Our new home is in Yates County...Penn Yan. We have well water and septic. Costs? On the surface, zero. Now, I'm no fool and I know there are going to be costs associated with maintenance, as well as the costs of a filter and water softener. But I grew up in a home with a well and septic and I know the costs are far minimal to what you're providing for monthly water charges.

So perhaps you can consider moving out to the country a bit....and save a fortune...AND avoid the heat.

Or...you can stop complaining about how horrible it is here and go find greener grasses elsewhere.

P.S. Nobody called you or your family liars and idiots. Stop being so dramatic. But...the information you're providing about these other "promisedlands" in other parts of the country just don't seem to mesh with the experiences of most everybody else here.
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Oneida
2,489 posts, read 1,512,101 times
Reputation: 838
I'm thyinking of some Southern person who lost there minds and moved to NY.

The lure of cheap utilities was tp much.

So October comes and that dampness sets in and the bones start to ache.

So they set the heat for 80/85. Life is pretty good.

Along about January the 1000 bills start rolling in.

Join City-Data and start whining about the high heat bills.

Locals start scratching heads thinking how is that possible?? Most people keep the heat between 60 and 65 and the bills stay between 300-400.

Something is wrong here. What do you have the heat set at Reb??

Thats kinda like what Yanks crying about AC bills is like.

And of coarse I'm gonna have a pool. And a hot tub. And a huge yard. And a tractor. And a new pickup. Because I'm gonna have like a million dollars when I get out of NY. IN fact the stop all U-Huals at the NY border and hand them high paying job. Right?? Isn't that how it works?? The streets are paved with gold right?? Will I even have to work at all?? Cause at first I was just planning to live in a trailer in a park and go to work everyday like MILLIONS of others but here I have learned its the "promised land"!!!!
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:39 AM
 
269 posts, read 365,235 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean® View Post
I'm thyinking of some Southern person who lost there minds and moved to NY.

The lure of cheap utilities was tp much.

So October comes and that dampness sets in and the bones start to ache.

So they set the heat for 80/85. Life is pretty good.

Along about January the 1000 bills start rolling in.

Join City-Data and start whining about the high heat bills.

Locals start scratching heads thinking how is that possible?? Most people keep the heat between 60 and 65 and the bills stay between 300-400.

Something is wrong here. What do you have the heat set at Reb??

Thats kinda like what Yanks crying about AC bills is like.

And of coarse I'm gonna have a pool. And a hot tub. And a huge yard. And a tractor. And a new pickup. Because I'm gonna have like a million dollars when I get out of NY. IN fact the stop all U-Huals at the NY border and hand them high paying job. Right?? Isn't that how it works?? The streets are paved with gold right?? Will I even have to work at all?? Cause at first I was just planning to live in a trailer in a park and go to work everyday like MILLIONS of others but here I have learned its the "promised land"!!!!
Or...that same person from the south moves to NY and buys a house with a WOODSTOVE. Then, they sign up for freecycle and wait for the inevitable "I have a tree that needs to be cut down, come and get it post." Free firewood....low-cost heat.

We had natural gas in RI, kept the heat at 62 and never saw a bill over $300. Average? I average $150 as a monthly gas bill. It's higher in winter and much lower in summer.

Here at our rental home, we had oil for the first time and it was quite a shock. Our new home has a whole house woodstove.

So say a southern boy moves here and doesn't like the cold. He adapts...he wears more layers and he looks for that woodstove to keep his heating costs down.

You move down south, there's only so many layers of clothes you can strip off before you're sitting there stark nekkid sweating your balls off. So you turn the a/c on...you set it to 85...you're still going to sweat your balls off. Just sayin'.

Now...you go enjoy your trailer park, working like everybody else. We'll stay here and enjoy our 3 acres of country, our 3500 sq ft home, and our reasonable COL. We'll enjoy our not too hot summer and in the winter, we"ll layer up, snuggle under the covers watching movies and keep each other warm.

Don't let the door hit ya on your way out.
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:23 AM
 
Location: 213, 310, 562, 909, 951, 952, 315, ???
1,381 posts, read 997,599 times
Reputation: 1582
People in Seattle can also drive two hours south and shop in Oregon where there is no sales tax.
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