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Old 01-10-2012, 12:35 PM
 
288 posts, read 434,377 times
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Cor's idea is clearly the best idea and clearly has the best chance to actually follow through with their plans; some may ask why? Two reasons, Mayor Miner's family connection, and because cor is relatively still a small development company. Over the years, cor has consistently built plazas and continues to grow. That being said, cor wants to be on the map as a big time development company and this is their in to put themselves on the map and compete/ have a better rep than Pyramid. If they fail to provide what they have promised to provide then certainly, businesses and citizens from Utica/Syracuse/ Rochester will lose faith in the company.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,668 posts, read 2,376,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acknight View Post
I think there's definite potential in the COR proposal (and it looked a lot better than I would have expected to come from them).

I'm not impressed by the Bass Pro-centric proposal (especially since it's conditional on convincing them to build a second destination store just 30 miles from another, and after Buffalo's experiences with them) and that paired with Hart's experience in the area being almost exclusively in anti-urban design (primarily building Walgreens pharmacies, and the urban Eastwood one only begrudgingly designed to fit it) doesn't seem like a strong proposal to me. But I wasn't there for the presentations, so they could have made a stronger case.

I think the COR proposal, with the elaborations you've made from what the press coverage said make sense to me.
Initially I thought the inner harbor would make a great location for a Bass Pro. As I "digest" COR's concept (I am ignoring the others), I conclude that a Bass Pro does not make sense as it "violates" the whole concept of a true urban neighborhood. I would rather have OCC as an anchor than a Bass Pro. Imagine academia meets fish and tackle. I can think of plenty of places to locate a Bass Pro in Onondaga County should they decide on a second store, i.e. perhaps Shoppingtown, or Cicero.

I have always wondered why Hart submitted a proposal, the only thing I see of substance on their web-site is Walgreens.

Last edited by urbanplanner; 01-10-2012 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,668 posts, read 2,376,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn88 View Post
Cor's idea is clearly the best idea and clearly has the best chance to actually follow through with their plans; some may ask why? Two reasons, Mayor Miner's family connection, and because cor is relatively still a small development company. Over the years, cor has consistently built plazas and continues to grow. That being said, cor wants to be on the map as a big time development company and this is their in to put themselves on the map and compete/ have a better rep than Pyramid. If they fail to provide what they have promised to provide then certainly, businesses and citizens from Utica/Syracuse/ Rochester will lose faith in the company.
I could not agree more, there is a rivalry going on. COR and the Mayor have Congel on their mind. COR has the potential to do what Congel did not and become a big time player. Truthfully, COR's proposal makes far more sense than what Congel initially proposing. I want the Carousel expansion completed and succeed, but the property between Hiawatha Blvd and Bear Street (included in the PILOT) should be revisited to conform to what is being proposed by COR.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
580 posts, read 1,012,260 times
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Originally Posted by urbanplanner View Post
I can think of plenty of places to locate a Bass Pro in Onondaga County should they decide on a second store, i.e. perhaps Shoppingtown, or Cicero.

I have always wondered why Hart submitted a proposal, the only thing I see of substance on their web-site is Walgreens.
Regarding Bass, Pyramid owns virtually all of the land between Spencer and Hiawatha. Perhaps an outdoors store is still a possibility for that neighborhood.

Hart's entry seemed to revolve as much around its partners (Pioneer Development, O'Brien & Gere, Cook + Fox) as it did around its own resume. On its own, the photo of the Eastwood Walgreens didn't do a ton to inspire confidence.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Syracuse
44 posts, read 68,632 times
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http://centralny.ynn.com/content/all...posals-are-in/

This link has some graphics to look at.
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:24 PM
 
1,544 posts, read 3,063,004 times
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Originally Posted by syrajason View Post
Waterfront development proposals are in - YNN, Your News Now

This link has some graphics to look at.
Thanks. The rendering provided by COR showing the project from the southwest looks much more impressive. I especially like the density. It will be interesting to see whether the public comments and input from the Common Council will lead to the project being downsized, drammatically altered (in a bad way) o or reduced in density to appease those who object to not having enough public access to the Inner Harbor or indequate room to park their Chevy pickup truck while attending a Chicken Wing festival put on by Galaxy Communications in the summer. After reading many of the comments on various websites, it's quite disburbing how many people would prefer the Inner Harbor stay as it is. Hopefully the Selection Committee will rise above the pervasive mentality of low standards and resistance to change that is widespread among several key demographic segments of population.

If you want to read some pretty scary ideas/comments from the homer crowd on WSTM-TV, I have provided a link below. One person either on WSTM or syracuse.com was complaining that "this money" meaning the estimated $300 million cost of the project should be invested in renovating rundown on housing in the city. While I would support such an initiative, this has absolutely nothing to do with this proposal. Given that the vast majority of Common Council members are intellectually challenged and have little understanding of urban planning, economic development or governmental administration for that matter, I'm hoping they will let the Selection Committee do their job.

What would you like to see added to Syracuse's Inner Harbor? : News : CNYcentral.com

Last edited by RollsRoyce; 01-10-2012 at 04:37 PM..
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Northeast Raleigh, NC
838 posts, read 1,423,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RollsRoyce View Post
If anything, OCC should have built their campus or at least a second campus downtown three decades ago.
A satellite campus downtown... perhaps. My dad has long felt that OCC should have been built on the long stretch of land bounded by Erie Boulevard, East Fayette Street, South Beech and South Crouse. They would obviously have run out of space by now and had to expand elsewhere but even in the 60's the demographic studies showed future population growth heaviest to the north of the city yet they built to the south.

I always wondered why and assumed corrupt local politics was the cause. Many years ago I had a girlfriend whose dad and grandfather were the lead architects for OCC (their firm had the contract.) She insisted that there were tangible non-political reasons why it ended up being built where it was. A year or two back I stumbled across an article that detailed the history of OCC and the reasons became clear (and legitimate.) I'll try to find and post a link to it but in short... the state of New York offered charters to counties wanting to form a community college and become part of the SUNY system but there were mandates that included the availability of x percentage of project cost already committed and paid for in advance. May have been some sort of matching funds from the state as well. John Mulroy, county executive at the time, was from a prosperous Marcellus area dairy farming family that owned a huger plot of land on Onondaga Hill. He and his family donated the land in order to make the project happen and not miss the deadlines. I do feel very strongly that a downtown or better yet - Inner Harbor - extension campus is a GREAT idea. That being said... growth at OCC of the programs, facilities and student body has been tremendous and the amount of space they have had available to grow into has been a key factor in allowing them to do this successfully.
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,668 posts, read 2,376,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Park View Post
On its own, the photo of the Eastwood Walgreens didn't do a ton to inspire confidence.
lol...I know what you mean, esp. a Walgreens next to a rendering of the new WTC site. For a project of this magnitude, they really fell short. Its like they slapped something together the night before.
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Old 01-11-2012, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,668 posts, read 2,376,982 times
Reputation: 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollsRoyce View Post
Given that the vast majority of Common Council members are intellectually challenged and have little understanding of urban planning, economic development or governmental administration for that matter, I'm hoping they will let the Selection Committee do their job.

What would you like to see added to Syracuse's Inner Harbor? : News : CNYcentral.com
I am sure the CC will let the Selection Committee do their job, its what they do with the Selection Committee's recommendation to the Mayor that might validate your concern. I am sure the CC will want to get their hands on this project so they feel relevent (bless their little "Andre Duany" hearts).

To be fair, there has been a lot of progress the last couple of years, the Connective Corridor; Creekwalk; WCNY; Pike Project; CENTRO Transfer Hub; Landmark; Center of Excellence; Biotech Research Center and other projects are (either) completed or moving forward. Lets hope this one becomes a reality, I am encouraged with OCC on board.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:55 AM
 
Location: DeWitt, NY
1,002 posts, read 1,691,118 times
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Unsurprisingly, the selection panel went with COR. Panel picks COR Development to transform Syracuse's Inner Harbor | syracuse.com
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