U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Syracuse area
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-13-2012, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Deep in the Woods
2,557 posts, read 2,676,794 times
Reputation: 2864

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageSunlight View Post
Not sure what you mean by this.

I lived in Queensbury and looked for a townhouse there. The only thing I qualified for was STAR, and it wasn't much. I mean, here is a house I would buy, in my price range:

CNYHomes - Detailed House Listing Information for MLS#S264188

I love this house- its got great character for a 50's ranch. I did the math, this house in the equivalent of a $175k house in Wake Forest. Both are nice towns I'm sure, so that doesn't factor. But $175k in NC gets you a 5 year old house with 3 bed and 3 baths in a great neighborhood. Again, it is what it is. NC is not NY. I've read the many posts here of people who have moved back and I understand why. My point is that those calculators are not accurate, in my opinion.

My question to you is: Is there anything that you don't like about Syracuse? Aside from taxes which everyone clearly knows are outrageous anywhere in NY. What do you not like?
C'mon ckh....don't dodge this one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-13-2012, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Deep in the Woods
2,557 posts, read 2,676,794 times
Reputation: 2864
Quote:
Originally Posted by proulxfamily View Post
I would say that it IS basically that way... who's going to buy a house with those taxes *with just a hope* that they can argue the taxes down? The sellers would have to do that, being the owners, but you can't argue that a home is worth less than the assessed value when you're selling it for more.

It's a bit odd... but something that can really only be taken care of over the years. You need to find that kind of home. That's why I tend to tell people in mixed-aged homes' areas to go to the county website and look up assessments and taxes, whenever they find homes they like. Maybe that great deal doesn't seem so great with double the taxes. Maybe you can get the nice, large, updated home, with mindful previous owners, for the same price... after factoring in the lower assessment.

Around here, I've noticed that the stock that doesn't sell has high taxes... high enough that the asking price would need to drop by tens of thousands to correct the affordability. And that's exactly what happens- or the sellers give up and foreclose. One home we loved, when first looking, was $120K. Great deal because the property was ripe for an easy flip (ugly and inconvenient layout but fairly easy for a good DIYer) or a great investment BUT the taxes were $6K. The price dropped to $70K, the next year. Over the following months, I checked again. House was put up for $150K (and sold there) and the taxes were down to $4K. THAT was a lot of risk - to buy a property where the taxes are higher than the mortgage with only a HOPE that you can argue it down - but the price needed severe chopping first.
Its mind boggling that its even LEGAL for your taxes to be more than your mortgage. I looked in Rochester a while back, and I think the taxes are even slightly higher there. And what do you get? I mean, I read a 10 page article in the New York Times talking about those 12 girls from LeRoy, the legacy of environmental contamination, loss of manufacturing, broken homes, and how f-ed up the town of LeRoy is. How low the salaries are, and basically the amount of stress people there are under to make ends meet. The article basically described western NY as comparable to West Virginia. I mean, clearly, Syracuse seems better poised for the future, even just based on location alone.

$5059 in taxes is 4.25% yearly of $119,000. That is just outrageous. I don't know anyone paying anywhere near that amount. Taxes in NC are about 1% yearly. I just don't get how the state can get away with that, and moreso, how can people sell their house?!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2012, 08:54 AM
 
2,440 posts, read 4,973,691 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageSunlight View Post
Its mind boggling that its even LEGAL for your taxes to be more than your mortgage. I looked in Rochester a while back, and I think the taxes are even slightly higher there. And what do you get? I mean, I read a 10 page article in the New York Times talking about those 12 girls from LeRoy, the legacy of environmental contamination, loss of manufacturing, broken homes, and how f-ed up the town of LeRoy is. How low the salaries are, and basically the amount of stress people there are under to make ends meet. The article basically described western NY as comparable to West Virginia. I mean, clearly, Syracuse seems better poised for the future, even just based on location alone.

$5059 in taxes is 4.25% yearly of $119,000. That is just outrageous. I don't know anyone paying anywhere near that amount. Taxes in NC are about 1% yearly. I just don't get how the state can get away with that, and moreso, how can people sell their house?!
There's another "trick." If you want a village lifestyle - realistic walkability to conveniences and recreation - look up the village limits. Buy a home close to that line... like just past the sidewalk or across the street. It's about the same distance and there are "magically" no village taxes. It effectively cuts your taxes by 25%.

I think the market will correct this issue on its own, if governments let it, that is. People won't be able to sell their homes and will clamour for this issue to be resolved. It's ridiculous.

I'm not upset over my village taxes, btw. They pay for many conveniences, on their own. I go to every village board meeting and there is zero cronyism and the mayor and trustees are VERY frugal. I cannot say the same for the town... they're all right with the budget but that's because of a few vigilant board members, who hold the others' feet to the ethical fire. Thankfully.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2012, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
580 posts, read 1,015,509 times
Reputation: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn88 View Post
And bars, jewelers, apartments, hotels, tobacco shops, convenient store...it's pretty much as diverse as it can get...what do you expect...a hardware store in armory square?
Ah, you'd better quit while you're ahead.

I like Syracuse quite a bit, but Central New Yorkers' obsession with the Armory is curious indeed. It's essentially a tavern district; there's a smattering of complementary retail (and one hotel), but it's far from a diverse urban district. And if it were a more self-sufficient neighborhood - like those in more successful cities - it would have amenities such as hardware stores.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2012, 09:02 AM
 
56,515 posts, read 80,824,285 times
Reputation: 12480
Actually, the Rochester area added 12,000 jobs this past year. So, the future isn't as bad as you think, eventhough one community has some issues. As a son of Southerners, you find similar, if not much worse stories for communities.

Also, I didn't dodge your question. I just didn't see it. There are many things I don't like such as some of the crime in particular neighborhoods, the educational results in many of the urban schools, the poverty in some neighborhoods, the cronyism in terms of politics, the reality or perception of opportunities for many people of color/in general and most of all, the attitude/lack of self esteem/pride in the area by too many people. With all of this said, you will find the same things, to some degree either way, in pretty much any metro area in this country.



What I do like is the overall affordability of the area, having the amount of events/activities for its size, most of the school districts are at least solid to very good, the general safety of the area, having 4 seasons, much of the history of the area, the ease of getting around town, the potential of the area, the relative lack of sprawl, proximity to great world class cities and sites/natural locales, the scenery(hills, valleys, etc.), the general down to earth vibe and having seasons.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2012, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
580 posts, read 1,015,509 times
Reputation: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyskies1 View Post

And to the poster who made the snarky hardware store comment, I was looking for something to do that didn't involve shopping/buying merchandise. When I lived there that seemed to be the only thing people I knew liked to do, go buy something.
You're right on this Armory observation. What some Central New Yorkers proudly view as their cute Disney idea of what a city should look like, most people from cities find underwhelming. There are a couple good restaurants down there, but it's pretty unspectacular.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2012, 09:19 AM
 
56,515 posts, read 80,824,285 times
Reputation: 12480
On the other hand, many Southern states have a property tax on vehicles and other items in some cases. Sprawl also effects things in terms of costs by being more car reliant. You also will and have seen tax increases in many Southern states/areas. So, when adding things up, the difference in overall costs aren't much different between Upstate NY and many Southern states/areas.

Even that house in Wake Forest wasn't anything uncommon in the Syracuse area and the posting of homes from the cnyhomes website shows that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2012, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
580 posts, read 1,015,509 times
Reputation: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Stinger6, you posted your E-mail address, said that you lived in Henderson, but had 13088(Liverpool) in your profile, said that Baldwinsville was 30 minutes from Downtown Syracuse and that Covered Bridge was in DeWitt. None of things were correct and I wouldn't post my E-mail address on here for people you don't really know.
I didn't agree with one of his claims in particular, but people seem to be harping on this "30 minutes to Baldwinsville thing" - where's the beef with that?

I live in midtown, don't get to Baldwinsville very often. Last time I did, though, I remember thinking "Jesus, this place is out there." I think it took me about 30 minutes to get from my place (via I-81 at Harrison to I-690). Google Maps tells me it's 23, but 30 doesn't seem a stretch.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2012, 09:32 AM
 
56,515 posts, read 80,824,285 times
Reputation: 12480
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
On the other hand, many Southern states have a property tax on vehicles and other items in some cases. Sprawl also effects things in terms of costs by being more car reliant. You also will and have seen tax increases in many Southern states/areas. So, when adding things up, the difference in overall costs aren't much different between Upstate NY and many Southern states/areas.

Even that house in Wake Forest wasn't anything uncommon in the Syracuse area and the posting of homes from the cnyhomes website shows that.
Also, there are posters in other NY forums that have experience with places like Austin and Raleigh-Durham, like jblake in the Buffalo forum and I'minformed in the Rochester forum that you can or that can give accounts of living in Upstate NY and growing Southern metros.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2012, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Deep in the Woods
2,557 posts, read 2,676,794 times
Reputation: 2864
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Actually, the Rochester area added 12,000 jobs this past year. So, the future isn't as bad as you think, eventhough one community has some issues. As a son of Southerners, you find similar, if not much worse stories for communities.

Also, I didn't dodge your question. I just didn't see it.
There are many things I don't like such as some of the crime in particular neighborhoods, the educational results in many of the urban schools, the poverty in some neighborhoods, the cronyism in terms of politics, the reality or perception of opportunities for many people of color/in general and most of all, the attitude/lack of self esteem/pride in the area by too many people. With all of this said, you will find the same things, to some degree either way, in pretty much any metro area in this country.



What I do like is the overall affordability of the area, having the amount of events/activities for its size, most of the school districts are at least solid to very good, the general safety of the area, having 4 seasons, much of the history of the area, the ease of getting around town, the potential of the area, the relative lack of sprawl, proximity to great world class cities and sites/natural locales, the scenery(hills, valleys, etc.), the general down to earth vibe and having seasons.
I was just messin with you, man.

The problem I see with upstate NY in general is certainly happening in many states around the country. You have an urban core that is hanging on by a thread, and in the case of Syracuse and Rochester, is losing population or at the very least, is stagnant. This urban core has poverty stricken neighborhoods, crime, etc. As you mentioned. Not everywhere, but omnipresent enough to be a deterrent from people moving back in. Manufacturing and other jobs have basically been sent overseas.

Surrounding that, there is a ring of most affluent suburbs. In Syracuse, I'm guess this would be towns like Manlius, Fayetteville, Dewitt. In Rochester, I recall Mendon and Fairport being pretty affluent. Among others, I'm sure. The population growth has generally been good here, and people want to live here. Problem is....

Surrounding that, you got more poverty, boarded up downtowns, more rural manufacturing thats gone, trailers, and uneducated people for the most part. Rusting silos, dairy farms that are overgrown with weeds, and of course, some beautiful countryside. If they frack these areas, well, that could be gone too.

Upstate is not alone. I lived in Raleigh for nearly 2 years. Its there too. Raleigh consists of the downtown core, which is doing quite well but has areas of excessive crime and poverty. Durham is even worse. There are outer suburbs which are doing extremely well- Cary, Apex, Wake Forest, North Raleigh, etc. Surrounding that, any further west than Carrboro, and you're right back into confederate flags, trailers, and NASCAR rednecks the likes of which would make Sarah Palin cringe. I exaggerate to make a point, but you get the picture.

NC has managed this better than NY, and I think places like Maine and Vermont have even managed it better than anywhere else. You'll be hard pressed to find a really bad town in VT, NH or ME, yet they have had a manufacturing legacy as well- somehow they have repurposed themselves better than other states.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Syracuse area
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top