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Old 03-13-2012, 12:00 PM
 
2,440 posts, read 4,962,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RollsRoyce View Post
People move to F-M for the schools, not the privilege to home school their children. Why should my tax dollars subsidize a $5,000 tax credit to people that want to home school their children. Everyone has access to public schools and it's their choice to utilize them or find other arrangements. Like it or not, the tax system is structured so every homeowner pays property taxes regardless of whether they use the public school system. Your only option may be to move to somewhere like Rockland County, NY, where hasdic jews have managed to infiltrate the public school boards in some districts and gut education spending. Their nefarious motive is that their children attend private yeshivas and they don't want to pay high property taxes. I would guess the vast majority of people in the F-M district with school age children would not opt to home school their children even if their taxes would plummet and they would receive a $5,000 subsidy from Washington. Some people like having careers and having their kids educated in a more formal setting, even it includes being exposed to some social ills and a competitive academic environment.. You're certainly entitled to parent as you see fit and I'm not trying to judge you, but to expect the vast majority of parents and Americans to agree with this view is naive.

That being said, it's good to stand up for your beliefs even they may be unpopular in some circles. Like him or not, Ron Paul has been very successful in developing a very cohesive group of supporters.
I can say, with ABSOLUTE confidence, that the societal pressures here would USE that credit without delay. The vast majority of households-with-children would become homeschooling families, in this area... perhaps even GROWING, homeschooling families... within the first year of such a program.

Let's put it this way-

Would you prefer an entire generation of youth who can support their lives, without infringing on your person and/or property [by NOT increasing taxes for what is only a hopeful education and future], or an entire generation of youth who EXPECT to support themselves on what they've been TOLD will support them... but won't really? You HOPE they will but what skills, really, have they been taught? Science and math will get you into MIT but will it keep you alive and with an almost-endless supply of work?

Last edited by proulxfamily; 03-13-2012 at 12:13 PM..
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:02 PM
 
1,544 posts, read 3,067,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proulxfamily View Post
Thank you for your honesty, Rolls.

At least in our community, I see a trend building... homeschooling. There are teachers in F-M, living AND working, who homeschool.

This isn't dis-similar from how children used to be taught.

A safe, local-government-active community allows for free-range thought.

An economy that allows profits to be RETAINED has an exceptional motivation for children to learn to create those profits.

I know a lot of stupid people with college degrees.

A college degree should not be the staple of educational results. SUCCESS should be.

Peer-pressure is powerful. It keeps me - truly, solely - weeding my gardens, mulching my paths, and cleaning our property *beyond* bare necessity to aesthetics. I have a reason to keep our property beautiful and productive, beyond basics.

If I hadn't the time to notice, those standards would be too high to obtain with an average [for the area] income.

In addition to my own business, I watch a child during the school year. Depending on the needs of my business, this child is cared for by me, my husband, my original, nuclear family or my husband's. It doesn't really matter- whoever cares for my children (close to us and well-known to us) cares for this child as well.

His mother often betrays her own lifestyle and expresses an urgent desire to be with her children. This expression of her desire often comes when she picks up her child when we've just returned from Green Lakes, a park, or are just playing or working on our own property.

Her peers tell me, in passing, how "lucky" I am, to be home with our children.

It has nothing to do with luck; it is merely a self-designed NEED to remain at home, as often as possible, to teach our children the facts of life.

Those facts have nothing to do with toys, activities/vacations, clothes or other "standards" of living that are common to this area.

Our children don't notice that these NEEDS aren't needED.

And there IS a need, imo, for higher education from the F-M school district... it's just that, by the time those higher-pursuits are needed, I've had the time to make connections, find needs and can work without arranging exceptionally-costly childcare for our family.

Kindergarteners don't need $17K in education. Yet- taxpayers are being charged for it.

Would seniors and no-children homes, who have no children in school, prefer to pay $5K or $17K for what would AMOUNT to the same education... especially if lesser funds were spent on children who expressed a desire to go on to apprenticeships, based on a REAL, free market?

Wouldn't YOU be happy, to pay for the same education for general education for less than a third of what you've been paying?
I certainly agree with some of your points and appreciate that you're very self sufficient, enterprising and care about your children. It does seem that many parents are too focused on themselves and not on their children. The rise in single parent households and the lack of a nuclear family structure over the past 30 years coupled with absentee parenting (this would include very affluent parents hiring nannies or other providers to raise their children) has had a negative impact on child development and society as a whole.
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Not Oneida
2,861 posts, read 3,510,118 times
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Quote:
For the area of Syracuse-

MY GAWD- WHY is there no four-year SUNY school, here?!
Within the Syracuse MSA is a 4 year SUNY school. And its closer to Fayetteville then Baldwinsville is to Syracuse.
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:48 PM
 
Location: DeWitt, NY
1,002 posts, read 1,693,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proulxfamily View Post
For the area of Syracuse-

MY GAWD- WHY is there no four-year SUNY school, here?!
SUNY schools in the Syracuse area:
ESF - Syracuse proper - university center/doctoral granting, 4 year
Oswego - not that far away - university college, 4 year
Morrisville - similar distance as Oswego - technology college, 4 year

That's in addition to Upstate in Syracuse, Oswego's metro center in downtown Syracuse, OCC for the community college level, and not being terribly far from Cortland to boot.

We've actually got more of them here in the Syracuse area than the Rochester area has. We don't have a university center here, like Binghamton/Albany/Buffalo, but we do have a substantial SUNY presence here.
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:22 PM
 
56,263 posts, read 80,446,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acknight View Post
SUNY schools in the Syracuse area:
ESF - Syracuse proper - university center/doctoral granting, 4 year
Oswego - not that far away - university college, 4 year
Morrisville - similar distance as Oswego - technology college, 4 year

That's in addition to Upstate in Syracuse, Oswego's metro center in downtown Syracuse, OCC for the community college level, and not being terribly far from Cortland to boot.

We've actually got more of them here in the Syracuse area than the Rochester area has. We don't have a university center here, like Binghamton/Albany/Buffalo, but we do have a substantial SUNY presence here.
I was going to say that there are plenty of them in the metro and adjacent counties. Can't forget Cayuga Community College in Auburn too.
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:54 PM
 
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Those are all the things that SUNY administrators use to placate Syracusans.

The reality is that - for the average person - a four-year degree is unlikely without almost full scholarships, grants or loans. There's little chance of working one's way through school without signing for a student loan.

That's not right. I'm hoping the rumors of OCC becoming a four-year school will happen. Cortland and Oswego - especially with gas prices as they are - are not realistic. They're also not what *I* would view as a great place to live. When those were my choices, I brushed them aside. Refused Oswego for the location (an hour away) and didn't want Cortland because they didn't even have my major. Morrisville was closer... but an agricultural school and primarily 2-year. Even then, those back roads to get there would have been dangerous, at best. There's a reason that so many Syracuse-suburban students MOVE there. Hilly, icy Route 20 is no fun.

And if a student doesn't have a car, it's not possible. In an area this size, there should be an affordable university to GO to, for a bachelor's. Most of my friends left Syracuse BECAUSE there was NO option to go to a SUNY school here, without it costing as much as moving to another area with a SUNY 4-year. A lot went to OCC for the first two years and moved for the last two years, because there was nowhere here to finish it. That was 10 years ago. Now, there's "Empire"... but that's online and you still need to go to some classes and jump through red tape.

Last edited by proulxfamily; 03-13-2012 at 03:10 PM..
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:38 PM
 
56,263 posts, read 80,446,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proulxfamily View Post
Those are all the things that SUNY administrators use to placate Syracusans.

The reality is that - for the average person - a four-year degree is unlikely without almost full scholarships, grants or loans. There's little chance of working one's way through school without signing for a student loan.

That's not right. I'm hoping the rumors of OCC becoming a four-year school will happen. Cortland and Oswego - especially with gas prices as they are - are not realistic. They're also not what *I* would view as a great place to live. When those were my choices, I brushed them aside. Refused Oswego for the location (an hour away) and didn't want Cortland because they didn't even have my major. Morrisville was closer... but an agricultural school and primarily 2-year. Even then, those back roads to get there would have been dangerous, at best. There's a reason that so many Syracuse-suburban students MOVE there. Hilly, icy Route 20 is no fun.

And if a student doesn't have a car, it's not possible. In an area this size, there should be an affordable university to GO to, for a bachelor's. Most of my friends left Syracuse BECAUSE there was NO option to go to a SUNY school here, without it costing as much as moving to another area with a SUNY 4-year. A lot went to OCC for the first two years and moved for the last two years, because there was nowhere here to finish it. That was 10 years ago. Now, there's "Empire"... but that's online and you still need to go to some classes and jump through red tape.
To be fair, Oswego has a Metro Center in Downtown Syracuse.

Also, if your friends had to leave, why didn't they just go the 40 miles to Oswego and 30 miles to Cortland?
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:49 PM
 
2,440 posts, read 4,962,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
To be fair, Oswego has a Metro Center in Downtown Syracuse.

Also, if your friends had to leave, why didn't they just go the 40 miles to Oswego and 30 miles to Cortland?
Because Oswego and Cortland aren't the kind of places where it's worthwhile, for them. And me, really. If you're going to move in search of new things, MOVE.
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:55 PM
 
56,263 posts, read 80,446,330 times
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Also, I personally think that every county in this state should have at least a state based community college. I believe that a few don't even have that. I believe that Hamilton County is the only county without a college of any type in the state.
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:57 PM
 
56,263 posts, read 80,446,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proulxfamily View Post
Because Oswego and Cortland aren't the kind of places where it's worthwhile, for them. And me, really. If you're going to move in search of new things, MOVE.
Where did they end going to?
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