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The state has failed to adequately invest in its urban areas with the exception of NYC and Buffalo. In the late 1970s, NYC was teetering on banktruptcy and the state bailed them out. At that time, upstate was urguably in much better economic shape than the city of New York, yet taxpayers across the state ended up saving the city from fiscal ruin which eventually laid the framework for the Big Apple's eventual revival in the early 1990s. About a decade ago, Buffalo was facing major fiscal woes due to corrupt unions, wasteful spending and shady politicians. The state formed a control board to assist financially strapped Buffalo and Erie County. Now Buffalo is generating surpluses and has removed a significant amont of debt that is now strangling other cities. During an Editorial Board Meeting with The Post-Standard, Cuomo stated he was not interested in "bailing out" other cities and school districts. Despite billions of state investment in Buffalo over the past two decades, Cuomo has decided to dump an additional billion dollars to support the blighted WNY city while providing no similiar level of stimulus to other depressed upstate and downstate urban areas. Cuomo, like his predecessors Pataki, Patterson and Spitzer have focused state investment almost exclusively in Western New York (Buffalo and Rochester) and the Hudson Valley while letting the rest of the state continue its half century long decline.
Even with billions of state dollars spent in places like Buffalo, Rochester, Poughkeepsie, Schenectady, Troy, Yonkers, Peekskill, and Newburgh, one would be hard pressed to notice any material difference. All of these cities look extremely blighted. Outside of Manhattan, I can't think of any urban area with a population of over 50,000 that looks vibrant or attractive (in my opinion) with the exception of Albany and White Plains. The revitalization of downtown White Plains was almost exclusively driven by private investment and overly generous city tax abatements that benefited two politically connnected developers, Trump and Cappelli. Proximity to New York City is likely the only reason that city has experienced a rebirth. Albany, despite having pockets of blight and poverty like Arbor Hill and the South End, is somewhat intact and has benefited from being the state capitol and the largesse of former Sen. Joe Bruno who steered taxpayer funds to major initiatives that benefited the Capital District including nanotech, minor league baseball stadiums, train stations, etc.. Poverty rates in Albany may be higher than many similiar sized cities, but significantly are lower than larger upstate cities and other medium sized population centers in MA, CT, RI, and PA. Income levels and college attainment are much higher than other simliar sized cities like Hartford, Allentown, etc.
I agree to a certain extent that Syracuse and every other major upstate city looks depressing from the highway. Waist high grass, graffiti, and mounds of trash greet travelers on a daily basis. Codes enforcement is almost non-existent and local leaders place little value on first impressions and the appearance of local thoroughfares. Gateways to the city look despicable and several high profile eyesores in the suburban Carrier Circle area and along I-81 in the first ring northern suburbs make for a negative first impression of CNY. It's very embarassing because from a topographic and scenery standpoint, Syracuse and CNY have some amazing natural beauty. Even standing downtown, the view of the southern hills looks amazing and the large hills in the University, Strathmore, North Side, Eastwood, and other neighborhoods provide some amazing views of the countryside and skyline. Despite a recent announcement of a "new" collaboration between the city, county, and state for beautifcation, I remain skeptical. Without a large committment from the state, I don't see local governments forking over money to improve the area's gateways and overall appearance.
As far as the negative attitude among locals - I have noticed this across NYS. In my personal experience I have found that people's negativity is not so much related to the neighorhood, village or town they reside in but at a more broader, macro level relating to the nearest big city and state as a whole. There is a fairly popular sentiment among political moderates, independents and conservatives (an even some of my liberal relatives and friends) that the state is overly generous to the poor while it strangles the middle class and businesses with very high tax rates, strict regulation, and ineffective economic development programs that provide too little benefit. Unlike many states that do not require residency requirements for those receiving "temproary" assistance, New York and some other states have no such restriction. You will often hear the saying that New York provides "Cadillac" style benefits to low income people that go far beyond federal guidelines and mandates. New York is the only remaining state in the nation to have the Scaffold Law, which was created in 1885 with the good intentions of preventing workplace accidents on multi-level and highrise buildings. The law which holds property owners and contractors fully liable for workplace accidents, regardless of fault has artificially inflated the cost of construction projects across the state from Lowvillle to Lindenhurst. In 1995, Illinois, another state with many highrise buildings repealed a similiar law. The state's very cohesive and politically influential Trial Lawyers lobby has successfuly stopped efforts to repeal this law and several others including the Triborough Amendment and excessive medical malpractice regulations that represent a major source of income for attorneys.
Anger among state residents is not only limited to overly generous programs that protect the poor and regulations some feel hinder business growth and development. Public sector workers in NY are some of the highest paid in the nation and enjoy "gold plated" benefits. Many police officers in low crime suburban New York City area villages and towns make in excess of $150,000 with overtime. Even police officers in Syracuse, many of whom lack a college degree or any other transferrable skill are raking in well over $125,000 with overtime that sometimes consists of sitting at the airport which is located in a low crime suburban area but is owned by the city. There was in interesting article in a New York City newspaper that showed several railroad mechanics that work for the Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA) in Jamaica, Queens were making over $250,000 with overtime. Uncompetitive union rules that allow for double shifts in one day and were unique to that one railyard were responsible for the bloated pay. The practice of "double dipping" and spiking pay in the years prior to retirement that ends up boosting pensions is commonplace. Efforts to reign in these perks have gone nowhere. Republicans are beholden to the police unions and anyone who proposes to cut their gravy train is automatically derided as being soft on crime or in the words of Rudy Giulani, "allowing another event like 9/11 to occur." The Democrats, on the other hand, are bought and paid for by the teachers union, CSEA, and militant public healthcare unions. The Buffalo City School District is perhaps the only one in the nation that has a stipulation in the teacher's contract that allows for free plastic surgery, including sex change operations.
Don't get me wrong, there are other states that have similiar problems, most notably California and Illinois. There are some laws that one would deem excessive or "nanny state" from a regulation standpoint that I support. I'm glad that New York requires recycling and has held up the approval process for hydrofracking. Regulations that restrict the amount of casinos and the tough enforcement of retailers that sell tobacco and illicit products, I generally support. Unfortunately, Cuomo seems hell bent on allowing hydrofracking and the expansion of casinos, because he is unable and/or unwilling to reduce New York's tax burden and provide targeted incentives that would attract high wage, private sector jobs in STEM fields. In a desperate attempt to appear moderate and "pro-business" as he sets his sites on the presidency in 2016, it is much more politically expedient for him to allow casinos and hydrofracking that involves little to no state funding and can lead to the growth of many low paying jobs in a matter of a couple of years. Quanity of jobs as opposed to quality is what's important to presidential contenders.
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This does have a lot to do with the attitude that may find around here and in other parts of the state, if not country. Unfortunately, some of those with that attitude may also be involved in some of this and this is the ugly side of government within states and the country in general. You can find out about the political aspect on this show: Capital Tonight « NY's only statewide political program
Interesting always how the state gov't and the way states are run does drip down...drip, drip, drip, to the local level of how people feel. And, the everyday people must feel powerless to change it, but they know something is wrong. All of you who discuss these matters are intelligent, thinking people which impresses me greatly. I know NY'ers are dam* smart and that's one thing I always valued here. The "nanny" thing was very evident when I came here and I was shocked. Coming from Royal Red Arizona, it was a wow moment. In Arizona, you can be literally dying, needing a transplant while the Governor Brewer the Beast says, No. And, she did for funding out of her state funds that supplements the medicaid there, Access it's called there. SHe's so opposite of everything good and human. Too much. And, they can always scapegoat the illegals if things aren't looking up for them. Easy deal there. But, here, if the way things are continue, how does that promote self care? Self responsibility? People having a reason to get up and try again? It's so lopsided. I see that the other extreme, here, is messed up. Too much. People don't have self esteem when someone else goes too far in their behalf. Yet, the people who need it should get help for sure.
Interesting always how the state gov't and the way states are run does drip down...drip, drip, drip, to the local level of how people feel. And, the everyday people must feel powerless to change it, but they know something is wrong. All of you who discuss these matters are intelligent, thinking people which impresses me greatly. I know NY'ers are dam* smart and that's one thing I always valued here. The "nanny" thing was very evident when I came here and I was shocked. Coming from Royal Red Arizona, it was a wow moment. In Arizona, you can be literally dying, needing a transplant while the Governor Brewer the Beast says, No. And, she did for funding out of her state funds that supplements the medicaid there, Access it's called there. SHe's so opposite of everything good and human. Too much. And, they can always scapegoat the illegals if things aren't looking up for them. Easy deal there. But, here, if the way things are continue, how does that promote self care? Self responsibility? People having a reason to get up and try again? It's so lopsided. I see that the other extreme, here, is messed up. Too much. People don't have self esteem when someone else goes too far in their behalf. Yet, the people who need it should get help for sure.
What you posted is a great example of how partisan our country is and how it could be one way here, but the same issues can occur in a fashion that is extreme on the other end. It similar with housing costs where a home here may have higher taxes or tax rates due to a lower home price, while the same home elsewhere would have lower taxes or tax rates with a higher home price. Many times the overall cost of housing can be lower here, but sometimes it isn't. It just depends on what you are comparing.
With this said, people have to be responsible for their own happiness and live life the best way they can, regardless of where they live.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 07-12-2012 at 06:16 PM..
Just curious, but what kind of misinformation have you come across on this forum or just on city-data in general?
As for the cities, while there are some run down areas or areas with main streets that need more investment, there are also parts of those cities that are fine to very nice. So, you have a range of neighborhoods within those cities as well. So, if you want a nice urban neighborhood, you can get that too.
As for the pessimistic attitude, if you notice on other forums/websites, you can get your share of people with that attitude in the area. What I've also seen is that transplants tend to have a better view of the area(depending what they want and expect) and that some people that have left and come back appreciate the area more than they did before. Even some of those that stay away even appreciate it more or would come back, if they could, one way or another. So, there are different ways of looking at that.
This is why I asked the initial question and why being specific about what you want is a key component in moving to a place that a person wants. Like the saying goes, "Help me help you". This isn't anything personal, but like it was mentioned, this is a serious decision that people do not want to play around with.
C-D in general. Like text messaging; tone, sarcasm, etc all matter. Also, people sometimes exaggerate or minimize things to make their point. For example, if you tell people you're looking for somewhere more upscale with a better quality of people, you are immediately labeled as a snob, when in reality you might just live somewhere with really awful people. As a single male, I used to post all the time (under a former screen name) in the relationships forum- talk about asking a simple question and being called all sorts of names, asking where to meet women and being called desperate or a loser can get tiring pretty quick. Its disheartening especially when you are just looking for advice. Some people don't have many other places to get information from actual people, especially a lone wolf like me! I think people have a hard time understanding that. I like this site but do find that some people like to vent their frustrations from behind a keyboard, a relatively safe and anonymous place. Still I get probably 60% good advice and 40% bad advice / insults from this site, so I choose to continue to post here, although far more limited than I used to under my old name. End C-D rant.
Regarding the second part, I'll probably decide at some point to move to the Capital District or Syracuse. The 105+ heat in the South for weeks on end I could not take anymore. Even here its so friggin hot. The weather patterns seem to be getting warmer, and winters less harsh. I keep 4 cities in my Accuweather queue- Raleigh, Glens Falls, Syracuse and here. It has been a 10-15 degree differential between Syracuse and Raleigh. If its 90 in Syracuse, its been 105 in Raleigh. 90 I can take with little complaining, but 105 and I'll never leave the house. Both have equal humidity % for the most part.
I was a little down on Syracuse for a bit, because I couldn't find too many homes that I would want to live in, in searching a few towns. But once I opened up to some additional areas, I found some better houses in my price range, which admittedly is low even for Syracuse. I think grdnrman's post about how pretty much all the burbs are good places to live made me search a few other towns that have better home prices- Cicero and Clay in particular might not be my top picks but seem to have newer, bigger homes and more choices, plus its easy to get anywhere. Also been looking at some city neighborhoods, although in a limited fashion as I am frankly afraid of crime creep in the city. Another big factor is I found a grad program at ESF that I want to take, and not much available at SUNY Albany. Lastly, In Glens Falls or Queensbury, I'm basically stuck with a 2 bed townhouse....stinks. I just really like that area.
I can relate to your post. You want pos/neg, but not skewed perceptions. But,the only place we can find that is through ourselves because we're the ones who've uniquely lived our own lives, if that makes sense. You know before I moved back to NY state, I weighed it, researched for over 1 year, talked to people (Mostly people said, "Why would you do that"?), etc. But, even visiting and living in a place are so different. And, you never know how the transition will go.The "unknown" factor. Fate, whatever. So, if I had visited a ton of times, I don't think it would have helped a bit.
When I was flying here, once before and once w/ the actual move, I went to the terminals coming here at the airport. The vibe almost knocked me over. It was so downtrodden is all I can say. Wowie. Not everyone, but a seriously downtroddeness was palpable and this is me having been gone for 19 yrs. plus feeling it, seeing it, not projecting it. It isn't all the time here at all either, but does "overcast," the area. And, what's it about?? Other places have negatives, but people don't carry around that vibe. Not sure. Northeastern thing? NY thing? Weather thing? Overtaxed and angry thing? I've also met the most sincere, nicest people. ANd, helpful to boot. The people here really care about others, not baloney. Thoughtfullness runs through a lot here. Consideratation. And, I don't like the NYC attitude either. Like, take an IV dose of valium and get back to me later. But, some of what I'm having a difficulty with is that people here don't seem to want to change or care about progressing ? Defensiveness when even discussed, and I don't know if theres any curiousity about anything. Kinda scary to me. Maybe cuz it's a smaller area, too. Don't know. Evaluation still in progress...
Great post, and I understand where you are coming from. The newness of the South and West, combined with the cloudless weather probably contribute to the good vibe of those areas a lot. But if the people are good people, well, I prefer that too.
The state has failed to adequately invest in its urban areas with the exception of NYC and Buffalo. In the late 1970s, NYC was teetering on banktruptcy and the state bailed them out. At that time, upstate was urguably in much better economic shape than the city of New York, yet taxpayers across the state ended up saving the city from fiscal ruin which eventually laid the framework for the Big Apple's eventual revival in the early 1990s. About a decade ago, Buffalo was facing major fiscal woes due to corrupt unions, wasteful spending and shady politicians. The state formed a control board to assist financially strapped Buffalo and Erie County. Now Buffalo is generating surpluses and has removed a significant amont of debt that is now strangling other cities. During an Editorial Board Meeting with The Post-Standard, Cuomo stated he was not interested in "bailing out" other cities and school districts. Despite billions of state investment in Buffalo over the past two decades, Cuomo has decided to dump an additional billion dollars to support the blighted WNY city while providing no similiar level of stimulus to other depressed upstate and downstate urban areas. Cuomo, like his predecessors Pataki, Patterson and Spitzer have focused state investment almost exclusively in Western New York (Buffalo and Rochester) and the Hudson Valley while letting the rest of the state continue its half century long decline.
Even with billions of state dollars spent in places like Buffalo, Rochester, Poughkeepsie, Schenectady, Troy, Yonkers, Peekskill, and Newburgh, one would be hard pressed to notice any material difference. All of these cities look extremely blighted. Outside of Manhattan, I can't think of any urban area with a population of over 50,000 that looks vibrant or attractive (in my opinion) with the exception of Albany and White Plains. The revitalization of downtown White Plains was almost exclusively driven by private investment and overly generous city tax abatements that benefited two politically connnected developers, Trump and Cappelli. Proximity to New York City is likely the only reason that city has experienced a rebirth. Albany, despite having pockets of blight and poverty like Arbor Hill and the South End, is somewhat intact and has benefited from being the state capitol and the largesse of former Sen. Joe Bruno who steered taxpayer funds to major initiatives that benefited the Capital District including nanotech, minor league baseball stadiums, train stations, etc.. Poverty rates in Albany may be higher than many similiar sized cities, but significantly are lower than larger upstate cities and other medium sized population centers in MA, CT, RI, and PA. Income levels and college attainment are much higher than other simliar sized cities like Hartford, Allentown, etc.
I agree to a certain extent that Syracuse and every other major upstate city looks depressing from the highway. Waist high grass, graffiti, and mounds of trash greet travelers on a daily basis. Codes enforcement is almost non-existent and local leaders place little value on first impressions and the appearance of local thoroughfares. Gateways to the city look despicable and several high profile eyesores in the suburban Carrier Circle area and along I-81 in the first ring northern suburbs make for a negative first impression of CNY. It's very embarassing because from a topographic and scenery standpoint, Syracuse and CNY have some amazing natural beauty. Even standing downtown, the view of the southern hills looks amazing and the large hills in the University, Strathmore, North Side, Eastwood, and other neighborhoods provide some amazing views of the countryside and skyline. Despite a recent announcement of a "new" collaboration between the city, county, and state for beautifcation, I remain skeptical. Without a large committment from the state, I don't see local governments forking over money to improve the area's gateways and overall appearance.
As far as the negative attitude among locals - I have noticed this across NYS. In my personal experience I have found that people's negativity is not so much related to the neighorhood, village or town they reside in but at a more broader, macro level relating to the nearest big city and state as a whole. There is a fairly popular sentiment among political moderates, independents and conservatives (an even some of my liberal relatives and friends) that the state is overly generous to the poor while it strangles the middle class and businesses with very high tax rates, strict regulation, and ineffective economic development programs that provide too little benefit. Unlike many states that do not require residency requirements for those receiving "temproary" assistance, New York and some other states have no such restriction. You will often hear the saying that New York provides "Cadillac" style benefits to low income people that go far beyond federal guidelines and mandates. New York is the only remaining state in the nation to have the Scaffold Law, which was created in 1885 with the good intentions of preventing workplace accidents on multi-level and highrise buildings. The law which holds property owners and contractors fully liable for workplace accidents, regardless of fault has artificially inflated the cost of construction projects across the state from Lowvillle to Lindenhurst. In 1995, Illinois, another state with many highrise buildings repealed a similiar law. The state's very cohesive and politically influential Trial Lawyers lobby has successfuly stopped efforts to repeal this law and several others including the Triborough Amendment and excessive medical malpractice regulations that represent a major source of income for attorneys.
Anger among state residents is not only limited to overly generous programs that protect the poor and regulations some feel hinder business growth and development. Public sector workers in NY are some of the highest paid in the nation and enjoy "gold plated" benefits. Many police officers in low crime suburban New York City area villages and towns make in excess of $150,000 with overtime. Even police officers in Syracuse, many of whom lack a college degree or any other transferrable skill are raking in well over $125,000 with overtime that sometimes consists of sitting at the airport which is located in a low crime suburban area but is owned by the city. There was in interesting article in a New York City newspaper that showed several railroad mechanics that work for the Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA) in Jamaica, Queens were making over $250,000 with overtime. Uncompetitive union rules that allow for double shifts in one day and were unique to that one railyard were responsible for the bloated pay. The practice of "double dipping" and spiking pay in the years prior to retirement that ends up boosting pensions is commonplace. Efforts to reign in these perks have gone nowhere. Republicans are beholden to the police unions and anyone who proposes to cut their gravy train is automatically derided as being soft on crime or in the words of Rudy Giulani, "allowing another event like 9/11 to occur." The Democrats, on the other hand, are bought and paid for by the teachers union, CSEA, and militant public healthcare unions. The Buffalo City School District is perhaps the only one in the nation that has a stipulation in the teacher's contract that allows for free plastic surgery, including sex change operations.
Don't get me wrong, there are other states that have similiar problems, most notably California and Illinois. There are some laws that one would deem excessive or "nanny state" from a regulation standpoint that I support. I'm glad that New York requires recycling and has held up the approval process for hydrofracking. Regulations that restrict the amount of casinos and the tough enforcement of retailers that sell tobacco and illicit products, I generally support. Unfortunately, Cuomo seems hell bent on allowing hydrofracking and the expansion of casinos, because he is unable and/or unwilling to reduce New York's tax burden and provide targeted incentives that would attract high wage, private sector jobs in STEM fields. In a desperate attempt to appear moderate and "pro-business" as he sets his sites on the presidency in 2016, it is much more politically expedient for him to allow casinos and hydrofracking that involves little to no state funding and can lead to the growth of many low paying jobs in a matter of a couple of years. Quanity of jobs as opposed to quality is what's important to presidential contenders.
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Bolded part, all true. Kudos. What a great topographic location the city has too. Much like a mini-Pittsburgh, maybe a bit less hilly, but close.
As always, your posts are super informative. I think you have the vibe of NY down pat. Its great to see such concise argument for why NYS is the way it is. I am in total agreement on how some nanny state laws are good. No burn barrels for example. PA has then all over the rural areas. Its disgusting. I'm so glad NY bans them, and is not jumping the gun on hydrofracking.
C-D in general. Like text messaging; tone, sarcasm, etc all matter. Also, people sometimes exaggerate or minimize things to make their point. For example, if you tell people you're looking for somewhere more upscale with a better quality of people, you are immediately labeled as a snob, when in reality you might just live somewhere with really awful people. As a single male, I used to post all the time (under a former screen name) in the relationships forum- talk about asking a simple question and being called all sorts of names, asking where to meet women and being called desperate or a loser can get tiring pretty quick. Its disheartening especially when you are just looking for advice. Some people don't have many other places to get information from actual people, especially a lone wolf like me! I think people have a hard time understanding that. I like this site but do find that some people like to vent their frustrations from behind a keyboard, a relatively safe and anonymous place. Still I get probably 60% good advice and 40% bad advice / insults from this site, so I choose to continue to post here, although far more limited than I used to under my old name. End C-D rant.
Regarding the second part, I'll probably decide at some point to move to the Capital District or Syracuse. The 105+ heat in the South for weeks on end I could not take anymore. Even here its so friggin hot. The weather patterns seem to be getting warmer, and winters less harsh. I keep 4 cities in my Accuweather queue- Raleigh, Glens Falls, Syracuse and here. It has been a 10-15 degree differential between Syracuse and Raleigh. If its 90 in Syracuse, its been 105 in Raleigh. 90 I can take with little complaining, but 105 and I'll never leave the house. Both have equal humidity % for the most part.
I was a little down on Syracuse for a bit, because I couldn't find too many homes that I would want to live in, in searching a few towns. But once I opened up to some additional areas, I found some better houses in my price range, which admittedly is low even for Syracuse. I think grdnrman's post about how pretty much all the burbs are good places to live made me search a few other towns that have better home prices- Cicero and Clay in particular might not be my top picks but seem to have newer, bigger homes and more choices, plus its easy to get anywhere. Also been looking at some city neighborhoods, although in a limited fashion as I am frankly afraid of crime creep in the city. Another big factor is I found a grad program at ESF that I want to take, and not much available at SUNY Albany. Lastly, In Glens Falls or Queensbury,
I'm basically stuck with a 2 bed townhouse....stinks. I just really like that area.
If you don't mind city neighborhoods, I'd say to look into neighborhoods south of East Genesee Street and east of Westcott, east of Sunnycrest Park between James and Burnet, south of Stolp and west of upper Onondaga Park and north of Grant Boulevard, among some others.
The one thing that really urks me is how when I was looking for a house in this area, the condition of some of these houses. I mean, if you wanna sell your home, clean it up!! And, paint, inside and out. Have your wood floors refinished. Those things make a world of difference. The house we found was amazing and priced about the same as others. It has wood floors in great condition and clean beyond clean. All sorts of great other woodwork, unique wood cabinets upstairs in bedrooms. Bathroom is immaculate, even with tile/grout clean as a whistle. And, they were in their 80's!! No excuse folks. But, many of the houses for the same price were pig styes. But, I initially despised Homeowners Associations in the West. After, a while I changed my mind and became a loyal fan of them due to their keeping the neighborhoods up nice. Some are "looser," while some are very tight. We were in a looser one, not militant like our former one, but kept the neighborhoods up.
Last edited by Nanny Goat; 07-14-2012 at 05:05 AM..
The one thing that really urks me is how when I was looking for a house in this area, the condition of some of these houses. I mean, if you wanna sell your home, clean it up!! And, paint, inside and out. Have your wood floors refinished. Those things make a world of difference. The house we found was amazing and priced about the same as others. It has wood floors in great condition and clean beyond clean. All sorts of great other woodwork, unique wood cabinets upstairs in bedrooms. Bathroom is immaculate, even with tile/grout clean as a whistle. And, they were in their 80's!! No excuse folks. But, many of the houses for the same price were pig styes. But, I initially despised Homeowners Associations in the West. After, a while I changed my mind and became a loyal fan of them due to their keeping the neighborhoods up nice. Some are "looser," while some are very tight. We were in a looser one, not militant like our former one, but kept the neighborhoods up.
Radisson in the Baldwinsville area is probably the biggest community with a homeowners association, but I've heard that they can be a bit strict about some things.
I believe that there are others in the Northern and Eastern suburbs.
With that said, HOA's have added costs and finding a home is a matter of research, as you just need that one place that you(anyone) is looking for.
The trouble with homes around here is they don't add value and things cost the same and nice areas are retreating and ghetto's expanding and the tax man hides behind every bush.
Cleanliness is of coarse cheap and a different subject. I don't think NYers are on average any cleaner or dirtier then anyone else.
But we buy HI supplies at Home Depot and Lowes just like alot of the country. The nicer areas of coarse have Menards but we are cut off from them<massive sigh>
My house needs paint. Needs paint badly in fact. I have a 5gal airless spray rig and all needed ladders. If you have cash and want me to spray your house I'll be right over. But I will not spray my own. It takes time and money and will not add to the value. But the tax man will be here the next day to add to my already insanely high dreamworld assessment.
Same thing with the inside. I build kitchens for fun and tool money. But a good kitchen made out of local hardwoods can easily exceed the value of most homes in this area. I've learned to ask afew basic questions and if I feel the numbers are scaring them I reccomend pre-built boxes from Lowes.
The houses here don't have the value to support improvements. Part of "cheap housing prices" is cheap houses. The free lunch just doesn't exist.
The ghetto part is the sad part. In a strange turn of events the most horrifying ghettos of today were yesterdays nice areas. Its often hidden by years of grime and crack soot but many of the most beautiful places in this area are in areas were angels fear to tread. Oneida is loaded with these places and Syracuse has some too. The Village of Canastota is crawling with them. Many of these houses are trimmed with woods, hidden under 50 coats of paint, that are illegal to buy today at any price. Crackheads are surrounded by beauty that a millionaire can't have.
NY really is a state of much heartache.
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