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Yup. News Channel 9 used to allow comments on their stories but took them down due to all the trolling. Now you can only comment on their FB page, with your name/profile attached to it
I recognize that when people post anonymously, all the nuts come out and post racist, extreme, or just completely ridiculous comments on any site. Check out the comments on any You Tube video. But there are other relocation or places rating sites (not allowed to post them here, but we've all seen them) that are a little more accurate I think.
Funny thing is, other than ToeJam, I don't think anyone here is saying that Syracuse is a bad fit. We're mixing up the issues here. In fact I stated quite the opposite- I said I liked the area, and I have found that in speaking with locals in person, not on here, they seemed to be a little down on the city. Rolls agreed with me that the locals are sometimes more hard on the city than outsiders that move in. I've seen posts on syracuse.com and Sperlings that say the same thing. There is a certain negativity in the area among locals- I didn't imagine it.
I would agree about the locals being hard on the place but I do think that is slowly shifting. For the most part many of the Syracuse residents in the past probably had good reason to be angry with Syracuse. Many were blue collar workers trying to raise families and were sold a bill of goods by their factories. When the factories decided to cut costs and move everything overseas or down south they left a lot of Syracuse residents high and dry. Many of those people were forced to leave Syracuse for jobs but others just stayed behind and became bitter.
However, the more Syracuse can pull outsiders in and those outsiders CHOOSE Syracuse to live then the shift in attitude towards the better will continue to improve.
First, I want to thank everyone who PM'd me and who took the time to comment (and debate) on this thread. And secondly, I need to apologize for being out of touch. At the moment my husband and I are staying with various relatives and tooling around the state so our internet access is especially limited. (Neither of us are the Iphone - mobile internet kind of folks, sorry!)
Reading through all the responses folks have covered a really wide range of concerns and thoughts and I've found them all interesting. And helpful to a certain extent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
How did everything go? Hopefully, you were able to find what you were looking for.
We'd continued looking in both states but ultimately for us we decided on CNY. And as of this morning we've put an offer in on a house, so pending the inspection results....who knows? We might be moving soonish!
For what it's worth, no place is ever going to appeal to all people.
I've lived in a lot of places and hated some (after deciding which I left) and I don't believe when you move that where you go is set in stone...You can either make the best of "the bad situation" and suck it up, Try to find the good things about where you're (stuck) living, or you find a way to move on to someplace else. Life really is too short to be miserable any longer than you have to be, you know?
So we'll see.
If we end up hating it --well, no biggie. We'll move.
But again, I wanted to thank everyone who added constructively to my original post.
The cost of a house is my primary concern, and clearly, upstate is cheaper. However, there are homes in my price range. They're bigger and nicer in CNY, but they do exist in the 150k range in NH, even near the coast. The closer to Boston and the coast, the less you get for the money, naturally. But I agree with Sean that cost of living calculators are pretty useless. Assuming I could get a decent place for $150k in both places, NH is a clear winner. No sales tax, no state income tax, cheaper gas prices, higher average salary, lower unemployment (if I lost my job, no job is secure anymore), plus proximity to Boston and the ocean. Also, less snow and more sunny days. I love snow but I do enjoy sunny days at the beach.
My in-laws retired in the fall, in NH, and moved down here at the beginning of the year. Their cost of living has drastically lowered. Everything was MUCH cheaper than NH. Car insurance dropped 15%. Groceries dropped about 40%. The rent and utilities for their big, just-gutted>renovated rental here is less than the property tax, view tax (yes- if you have a good view, it carries its own tax), insurance and utilities of their modest, mortgage-free home in NH. Vehicle registration went from $800/year in NH to $80 for two years, here. Their retirement income is equally tax exempt. Gas is rarely more than 10 cents/gal. more. With how close shopping is to affordable living areas, the amount of gas used is less than half... in NH, being close to shopping (and "great shopping area" means if you slapped Bridge Street and Nedrow shopping together- still not much in the way of shopping without driving at least an hour), means the real estate is super pricey. There's no tax on groceries here either, so you have the super-low prices and still no tax.
NH gets less snow but they keep every flake, all winter long. It's so cold and windy that it never melts. Here, a several-foot storm will have melted by the next week. They don't salt the roads; they sand them. Or just scatter gravel. The roads themselves are awful, having been damaged from frost heaves from winter cold. Our shocks take a beating, every time we're up there. I still don't understand it... it gets cold here too but EVERY road *certainly* doesn't ripple up like a wave. We were up there last year - early 2011 - and there was sleet and two inches of snow. Living here, we thought we'd wait a few hours and then head home. Nope. We had to wait two days, for the ice to melt. They *can't* plow like they do here - the roads just aren't flat - and salt just.isn't.used. My husband's boss didn't believe it, that we could be snowed in for two days, with some freezing rain and two inches of snow. Madness.
A great deal of that higher income in NH is from people commuting to Boston. My brother-in-law has done it for years. He has an exceptional income... but his commute is 2 hours, one way, and he pays his parents - 35 minutes from downtown Boston, for room & board. He stays there during the week and goes home for special events and on the weekends. He's in a highly-skilled profession and couldn't make a great income any closer- believe me, he's been trying.
My in-laws retired in the fall, in NH, and moved down here at the beginning of the year. Their cost of living has drastically lowered. Everything was MUCH cheaper than NH. Car insurance dropped 15%. Groceries dropped about 40%. The rent and utilities for their big, just-gutted>renovated rental here is less than the property tax, view tax (yes- if you have a good view, it carries its own tax), insurance and utilities of their modest, mortgage-free home in NH. Vehicle registration went from $800/year in NH to $80 for two years, here. Their retirement income is equally tax exempt. Gas is rarely more than 10 cents/gal. more. With how close shopping is to affordable living areas, the amount of gas used is less than half... in NH, being close to shopping (and "great shopping area" means if you slapped Bridge Street and Nedrow shopping together- still not much in the way of shopping without driving at least an hour), means the real estate is super pricey. There's no tax on groceries here either, so you have the super-low prices and still no tax.
NH gets less snow but they keep every flake, all winter long. It's so cold and windy that it never melts. Here, a several-foot storm will have melted by the next week. They don't salt the roads; they sand them. Or just scatter gravel. The roads themselves are awful, having been damaged from frost heaves from winter cold. Our shocks take a beating, every time we're up there. I still don't understand it... it gets cold here too but EVERY road *certainly* doesn't ripple up like a wave. We were up there last year - early 2011 - and there was sleet and two inches of snow. Living here, we thought we'd wait a few hours and then head home. Nope. We had to wait two days, for the ice to melt. They *can't* plow like they do here - the roads just aren't flat - and salt just.isn't.used. My husband's boss didn't believe it, that we could be snowed in for two days, with some freezing rain and two inches of snow. Madness.
A great deal of that higher income in NH is from people commuting to Boston. My brother-in-law has done it for years. He has an exceptional income... but his commute is 2 hours, one way, and he pays his parents - 35 minutes from downtown Boston, for room & board. He stays there during the week and goes home for special events and on the weekends. He's in a highly-skilled profession and couldn't make a great income any closer- believe me, he's been trying.
I figured it was too good a deal to pass up. 15 minutes from the ocean, little over 1 hour to Boston, central AC (rare), $133k. To top it off, it had natural gas- nearly impossible to find in northern New England. I learned a lot in this experience. Gas, in a listing, means "bottle gas" or the tricky "utility gas" which is propane, which is even more expensive than oil. It has to say gas-natural. K-9 is kerosene, which is basically a smelly space heater. I think my grandparents used to heat their house Upstate with kerosene (in the 1940's ). And of course, electric, which will bankrupt you fast up there.
As I was told, taxes are listed by year, in this case, $3703. Ok, not too bad. I asked if the association fees are also by year, $260. They said "everything is listed as a yearly fee, including the association fees". Sounded fishy but I believed it. Found out, its per month. That jacks the month nut from $1,000 to $1,260 roughly. Can't do it. As it turned out, in the time it took to drive up I-95 from NJ, the house went under contract. I still got to see it, and it turned out to be cute but very, very small and while the landscaping and backyard are nice, its common grounds. They make it look like its yours- well, just the deck is yours. I prefer something thats all mine. Turns out natural gas heated townhomes and condos go FAST up there. Sometimes within a day or two. Oil can cost $400 a month or more, natural gas can be as little as $80 in the dead of winter.
I haven't found much in my price range, so yes, I will concede that CNY is cheaper housing wise. Which means probably significantly cheaper overall too. The gap has closed a bit, as homes there have taken a bath, and to be honest, I am noticing homes in CNY right now, you are actually getting less for your money than 6 months ago. Could also be that its prime season for real estate, and hopefully in the winter there will be better homes in the $125 - 135k range. I do think Syracuse real estate is doing nicely- I'm noticing all the nice homes in the $125-$135k range getting snapped up quick. That said, I simply cannot afford living in NH, just as the OP found as well.
For me, and this is just what my preferences are, I find the stores a little better up in NH. I like Wegmans way better than Hannaford, but within 1 hr of Dover, there is Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Cabelas, Costco, Ikea, LL Bean, REI, etc. While I fully understand that most of these stores are in the Boston metro, it doesn't change the fact that I would like to have access to them. However, you make do. Instead of Costco, there's a Sam's Club. Instead of Cabelas, there's Bass Pro. And Wegmans has a lot of stuff that Whole Foods has. So, you manage and also, NJ has all of these stores and many more. NJ is the mall capital of the US, and I'd be back here at least once a month.
In a side by side comparison, I have found that my car insurance would be significantly cheaper in NH. I don't know why. And I used a suburban zip in Syracuse. In fact, the difference between southern NJ and Syracuse, my car insurance would be almost identical. So its not an issue for me, as long as it didn't go higher, I am comfortable paying the same. Which btw, is about $1200 a year for 1 vehicle (I drive a lot and keep very high limits, as per Dave Ramsey )
Vermont does not salt their roads, I remember that when I lived there. I don't think NH or ME do either. Its nice to hear that the snow eventually melts in Syracuse. To be fair, near the Seacoast region in NH, its the warmest area and gets far less snow than places inland, even just a few miles. Your in-laws, iirc, lived further north and west. That area gets hammered and is extremely cold.
Let me say this- some people tried to call me out, and make it seem like I was putting the area down when I clearly wasn't. I'm not miserable or unhappy here, nor would I be in Syracuse. Someone here posted that if they don't like it someplace, they can always move. That is easier for some than others. I have to make the right choice from the get-go, otherwise I might be eating ramen noodles for the rest of my life and continuing to live out of a suitcase. I simply cannot afford to move somewhere and have it not work out. That's why I'm on here and sometimes feathers get ruffled but I gotta ask the genuine questions.
Lastly, someone asked why don't I post much in the NH forum? Simple. I can't stand the posters in there. Old, codgery curmudgeon people that the second I say I'm from NJ, it would be "go back to your socialist paradise" or "stay in Massachusetts" (love that one) or "don't come here and change our way of life". Syracuse forum posters are hardly ever like that. Many of the NH posters remind me of Joad Cressbeckler:
If you want to talk to someone or ask questions about NH, try getting in touch with GraniteStater. I believe that he would give you information you need to compare the two areas.
I wish I could get in on these deals of putting a car on the road. I'm looking at a ten year old S10 beater for the Winter. 525$ to NYS to put it on the road.
To me saying insurance is cheaper or more by state is silly. To each individual it works but by state?? So someone with 5 DWI's and bad credit is gonna pay less in NY then someone with gold star credit and a perfect record in NH??
I wish I could get in on these deals of putting a car on the road. I'm looking at a ten year old S10 beater for the Winter. 525$ to NYS to put it on the road.
To me saying insurance is cheaper or more by state is silly. To each individual it works but by state?? So someone with 5 DWI's and bad credit is gonna pay less in NY then someone with gold star credit and a perfect record in NH??
Show me where anyone said it was generally cheaper... it's only personal experience of it being cheaper. When it's that often, it gives you an idea.
And $4500 is too much, if it's a beater. I doubt it is, or you wouldn't be buying it. All trucks in NY are crap, right? All beaters because they're in this awful state.
4500$ for a pickup anywhere is a beater. In NY is just gonna be rusted out. The one I'm looking at is as rusty as you would expect of a 10 year old car/truck but its super low miles and the frame isn't rusted out. It may not be good enough for you high rollers but it will suit me fine. Four wheel drives in that class are rare in Florida so rust bucket it is!!!
Ironically, an alternative to REI in the area is Eastern Mountain Sports, which is based in Peterborough NH. There are locations at the Fayetteville Towne Center and DestinyUSA.
There may be other alternatives to the brand name stores mentioned like local co-op/health food markets, Gander Mountain, Pier 1 Imports and perhaps stores at Waterloo Premium Outlets or even Eastview Mall in Victor, among others.
I figured it was too good a deal to pass up. 15 minutes from the ocean, little over 1 hour to Boston, central AC (rare), $133k. To top it off, it had natural gas- nearly impossible to find in northern New England. I learned a lot in this experience. Gas, in a listing, means "bottle gas" or the tricky "utility gas" which is propane, which is even more expensive than oil. It has to say gas-natural. K-9 is kerosene, which is basically a smelly space heater. I think my grandparents used to heat their house Upstate with kerosene (in the 1940's ). And of course, electric, which will bankrupt you fast up there.
As I was told, taxes are listed by year, in this case, $3703. Ok, not too bad. I asked if the association fees are also by year, $260. They said "everything is listed as a yearly fee, including the association fees". Sounded fishy but I believed it. Found out, its per month. That jacks the month nut from $1,000 to $1,260 roughly. Can't do it. As it turned out, in the time it took to drive up I-95 from NJ, the house went under contract. I still got to see it, and it turned out to be cute but very, very small and while the landscaping and backyard are nice, its common grounds. They make it look like its yours- well, just the deck is yours. I prefer something thats all mine. Turns out natural gas heated townhomes and condos go FAST up there. Sometimes within a day or two. Oil can cost $400 a month or more, natural gas can be as little as $80 in the dead of winter.
I haven't found much in my price range, so yes, I will concede that CNY is cheaper housing wise. Which means probably significantly cheaper overall too. The gap has closed a bit, as homes there have taken a bath, and to be honest, I am noticing homes in CNY right now, you are actually getting less for your money than 6 months ago. Could also be that its prime season for real estate, and hopefully in the winter there will be better homes in the $125 - 135k range. I do think Syracuse real estate is doing nicely- I'm noticing all the nice homes in the $125-$135k range getting snapped up quick. That said, I simply cannot afford living in NH, just as the OP found as well.
For me, and this is just what my preferences are, I find the stores a little better up in NH. I like Wegmans way better than Hannaford, but within 1 hr of Dover, there is Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Cabelas, Costco, Ikea, LL Bean, REI, etc. While I fully understand that most of these stores are in the Boston metro, it doesn't change the fact that I would like to have access to them. However, you make do. Instead of Costco, there's a Sam's Club. Instead of Cabelas, there's Bass Pro. And Wegmans has a lot of stuff that Whole Foods has. So, you manage and also, NJ has all of these stores and many more. NJ is the mall capital of the US, and I'd be back here at least once a month.
In a side by side comparison, I have found that my car insurance would be significantly cheaper in NH. I don't know why. And I used a suburban zip in Syracuse. In fact, the difference between southern NJ and Syracuse, my car insurance would be almost identical. So its not an issue for me, as long as it didn't go higher, I am comfortable paying the same. Which btw, is about $1200 a year for 1 vehicle (I drive a lot and keep very high limits, as per Dave Ramsey )
Vermont does not salt their roads, I remember that when I lived there. I don't think NH or ME do either. Its nice to hear that the snow eventually melts in Syracuse. To be fair, near the Seacoast region in NH, its the warmest area and gets far less snow than places inland, even just a few miles. Your in-laws, iirc, lived further north and west. That area gets hammered and is extremely cold.
Let me say this- some people tried to call me out, and make it seem like I was putting the area down when I clearly wasn't. I'm not miserable or unhappy here, nor would I be in Syracuse. Someone here posted that if they don't like it someplace, they can always move. That is easier for some than others. I have to make the right choice from the get-go, otherwise I might be eating ramen noodles for the rest of my life and continuing to live out of a suitcase. I simply cannot afford to move somewhere and have it not work out. That's why I'm on here and sometimes feathers get ruffled but I gotta ask the genuine questions.
Lastly, someone asked why don't I post much in the NH forum? Simple. I can't stand the posters in there. Old, codgery curmudgeon people that the second I say I'm from NJ, it would be "go back to your socialist paradise" or "stay in Massachusetts" (love that one) or "don't come here and change our way of life". Syracuse forum posters are hardly ever like that. Many of the NH posters remind me of Joad Cressbeckler:
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). And of course, electric, which will bankrupt you fast up there.
)
