Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Syracuse area
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-08-2013, 11:31 AM
 
92,591 posts, read 122,890,392 times
Reputation: 18208

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by acknight View Post
The old OnTrack shouldn't ever return in its old state. It was a project largely seeking a purpose and failing to hit either end of the need chain.

To wit: if you want to position a rail system as a commuter option, it needs to do at least one of two things really well - have parking available at an endpoint (like park and ride for CENTRO), or go to where a reasonably high density of people live.

OnTrack only had one stop that had reasonable amounts parking available (Carousel), and sort of but not anymore Armory Square. And the only station that was anywhere near a reasonable density of potential users was in a forgettable location below the Carrier Dome, and in an area that was better served and for less money by CENTRO buses.

If we were to contemplate revitalizing rail-based transit here, we'd be better off digging up the old trolley tracks (in many places still paved over in the city) and revitalizing that, or starting over. The track coverage of the OnTrack system was too limited to be of much potential use as a commuter rail - the only reasonable way to make a rail-based system viable here. Failing to get connected to the RTC was the first blunder - but there weren't even plans to do with it what would've helped moreso, which was a connection to the airport.
Basically....I think if the city allowed for the use of paved over rail on the major thoroughfares, then rail could be more viable. If the system used rail that went into the Northern suburbs, you could possibly use it for commuter rail. This if it is strategically placed and if I-81 actually does come down.

Here is an interesting history in regards to rail transportation in the area: Interurban and Streetcar railway in Syracuse, New York - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's an interesting plan for light rail: Light Rail plan for Syracuse

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 11-08-2013 at 12:05 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-19-2014, 08:49 AM
 
Location: 213, 310, 562, 909, 951, 952, 315, ???
1,538 posts, read 2,609,193 times
Reputation: 1869
They talk a bit about Ontrack in this story about Roth Steel going out of business. Roth Steel closed owing county development agency $60,000 | syracuse.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2017, 07:23 PM
 
92,591 posts, read 122,890,392 times
Reputation: 18208
I wonder if we could see a comeback in regards to this rail line again, given that the mayor elect is in favor of I-81 coming down?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2017, 09:17 AM
 
201 posts, read 297,700 times
Reputation: 459
I'm sure it would help our Amazon bid!

At least for SU football and bball games! Would love to see the extension to Onondaga Lake Park too, and with a tram, or further extension, it could serve the fairgrounds and ampitheater.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I wonder if we could see a comeback in regards to this rail line again, given that the mayor elect is in favor of I-81 coming down?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2017, 10:56 AM
 
92,591 posts, read 122,890,392 times
Reputation: 18208
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonthedream View Post
I'm sure it would help our Amazon bid!

At least for SU football and bball games! Would love to see the extension to Onondaga Lake Park too, and with a tram, or further extension, it could serve the fairgrounds and ampitheater.
Yes, that would be great and would likely increase ridership.

Here is an old article about the system and it could serve as a way to make improvements to the line, if it comes back. Syracuse: When Rail Fails | Metro Jacksonville

An old article about the train possibly becoming a passenger route between Syracuse and Binghamton: The Empire State Passenger Association Newsletter, May-June 2002

Old website: https://web.archive.org/web/20060615...0/ontrack1.htm

Mentioned in Hancock International Airport’s Long Term Initiatives: http://www.syrairport.org/wp-content...tegic-Plan.pdf

Complete route and stations: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnTr...nTrack_map.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnTrack#List_of_stations

Express schedule: https://web.archive.org/web/20050404...80/sched-x.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20060617...m:80/map-x.htm

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 11-29-2017 at 11:09 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2017, 11:08 AM
 
4,277 posts, read 11,745,008 times
Reputation: 3931
I think the route was a good location as it made use of existing underutilized track. 7-day frequency and morning service would have made it less pointless, as would Fairgrounds service. If they could create a flyover past the rail station and continuing on further north it could be a great commuter replacement for reduced capacity on I-81 from the north to SU hill.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2017, 11:25 AM
 
92,591 posts, read 122,890,392 times
Reputation: 18208
^ This and I also think that there needs to be some strategic development along the rail route. You could also market it as a way to get to county parks(Jamesville Beach and NBT Bank Stadium, with possible connections in the future).

ki0eh, how do you think the Binghamton to Syracuse route would work? I noticed that it would include a stop in Cortland from what I saw. Perhaps a bus route from the Cortland stop to Ithaca would also make it more viable. Same goes out to you guys/gals with ties to Binghamton or Ithaca as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2017, 09:05 AM
 
4,277 posts, read 11,745,008 times
Reputation: 3931
I suspect the viability of track-borne transit goes up when the bus is perceived to be stuck in the same traffic as the private car. I think it goes down when you need to park to ride the whatever, unless parking is perceived to be much easier at the park-and-ride spot, and you don't then need another intermodal transfer.

South of, say, Jamesville, the train line goes through pretty sparse exurban/rural areas and swings to the east to climb the escarpment and stay out of the Onondaga Reservation. There seems to be no way there would be sufficient traffic on I-81 to make the train faster than the bus from Tully even, much less further south. (I used to actually catch the bus from Tully after driving there, sometimes to the SU hill, when I knew there wasn't an evening scheduled task.)

Much as I think a Syracuse-Binghamton-Scranton or Port Jervis-Hoboken train would be cool, it seems difficult in an overall sense to compete against a bus. An Ithaca (downtown/Cornell/airport/P&R)-Cortland (downtown/P&R)-Syracuse (SU hill/downtown/transportation center-Destiny/airport) bus on frequent service including weekends and off shifts, would seem to be a good service to have. (Sell it to the Cornell kids as the bus to the Apple store, they'll pack it. )
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2017, 03:48 PM
 
92,591 posts, read 122,890,392 times
Reputation: 18208
Quote:
Originally Posted by ki0eh View Post
I suspect the viability of track-borne transit goes up when the bus is perceived to be stuck in the same traffic as the private car. I think it goes down when you need to park to ride the whatever, unless parking is perceived to be much easier at the park-and-ride spot, and you don't then need another intermodal transfer.

South of, say, Jamesville, the train line goes through pretty sparse exurban/rural areas and swings to the east to climb the escarpment and stay out of the Onondaga Reservation. There seems to be no way there would be sufficient traffic on I-81 to make the train faster than the bus from Tully even, much less further south. (I used to actually catch the bus from Tully after driving there, sometimes to the SU hill, when I knew there wasn't an evening scheduled task.)

Much as I think a Syracuse-Binghamton-Scranton or Port Jervis-Hoboken train would be cool, it seems difficult in an overall sense to compete against a bus. An Ithaca (downtown/Cornell/airport/P&R)-Cortland (downtown/P&R)-Syracuse (SU hill/downtown/transportation center-Destiny/airport) bus on frequent service including weekends and off shifts, would seem to be a good service to have. (Sell it to the Cornell kids as the bus to the Apple store, they'll pack it. )
Good points and I’m surprised that TCAT or a joint transit relationship doesn’t offer a shuttle to Destiny USA/the Transportation/Hancock International from Cornell/IC and TC3.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2017, 11:13 PM
 
Location: In the heights
37,003 posts, read 39,060,092 times
Reputation: 21046
I can see this working out as a light rail line if it connects to the Amtrak station and up to the airport with maybe one or two more stop in Mattydale (going north from the rail right of way via Brewerton or Lemoyne) and/or the Northern Lights Shopping Center along the way to the airport, an infill station on Genesse St, and an infill station on Salina Street. If ever that plot of land between 690 and the lake were to be developed and/or turned into a park, then a stop at where the railway bends northeast would make sense. In regards to the prior service, the stop distances were a bit far apart for such a short line and while it got to downtown and the university, the frequencies were bad, and it didn't get to the Amtrak station or the airport which are places one can reasonably assume someone coming in or leaving without a car.

The idea that it was run as basically commuter rail for such a short track length and without connections to the places where people are guaranteed to be without a car seems ridiculously silly in hindsight.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 12-01-2017 at 11:41 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Syracuse area
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top