Syracuse or Hartford, CT (New York, Albany: loans, job market, live in)

[Ham Sandwich]

Originally Posted by bellafinzi

Ham Sandwich, please stop judging "Syracuse" based on your rural lifestyle or city experiences. I'm sure you'd appreciate "Syracuse" better if you lived in real suburb and not some farm town.

I find most rural areas of Upstate NY very depressing. They feel empty and devoid of life. Not to mention I have trouble relating with the people who live there.

I also find most Upstate NY big cities...Syracuse, Rochester and Buffalo just as depressing. Too many eyesores, and too many old buildings in disrepair. I also have a hard time relating with the people in the inner cities.

My advice to you is start spending more time in the northern suburbs. People are nicer up here IMO. I've noticed that people in the eastern suburbs, western suburbs and city to be very different than people who live in the northern suburbs....

Ok- here's what I will reveal:

I came here to study Syracuse..and that inclues the Northern suburbs, but my treck hasn't taken me there enough...so I've studied the city and the burbs to the South. The architecture (a la "Alberti on Painting" [transaltion, '72, Martin Kemp publishers], the people, the mindset...I can say that about Alberti because it's going to shock the heck out of some people..."Didn't see that comming, hrump!"

I do want to study the Northern burbs...I haven't gotten there enough to do anything near a draft, but here's a bit of what I know about it:

"Aversive racism" is everywhere. While someone may say "Gosh darn, that Black family lives there, and they haven't even been lynched..." (ok, this is an exaggeration, but you get the idea)...what AA's DON'T tell ther white neighbors is this:

Compare our kids. You tell me if you'd feel happy about this happening to your kids (or you)

1.) Everytime my son/daughter goes to Carousel, s/he is followed by store detectives. It doesn't matter that s/he pays for the items with a (fill in the dept store name) credit card...they are always followed.

2.) Kids (white) on the block, try to be "hip" and "cool" using words like "N*gga", and saying like "yo, yo, raise da roof" when in my child's presence... We don't not speak this way at home. We do not consider it a "compliment." Why do you insist on doing this?

3.) One child has told my child "Isn't that great that you have dark skin--you don't get sunburns! How cool!" (Um no, this is some sort of weird white-people myth)

4.) White neighbors ask me (or my children) to speak for my race on a regular basis... "So tell me, how does the BLACK community feel about this?" or (the ever popular Tioga version) "So there, Mr. Smith...Any Racism in the neighborhood?" Mr. Smith's thought: "If there was, Mr. Jones, I surely wouldn't tell you...your question makes me uncomfortable. . .well, I won't tell you, because that would be rude, and you'd probably deny it...I have to live here with you."

5.) You talk to your *Black* neighbors:

You: "Hi there, Shaniqua!"
(Her name is Shahana-qui-a, but you don't remember that)

Her: Why, hello Mr. Smith.
(She resents the fact that use her first name..and the fact that you don't say it correctly)

You: How's your...little Princess? (talking about children playing together)
Her thought: I know you don't remember Olakatumbo's name, so you gave her the nickname "little prinencess..." get real, buddy. Take 30 seconds and memorize it . O-LA-KA-TUM BO.

Her: "Oh, she's fine... Isn't it nice how they play together?"
Her thought: "Fine...After your kids stared at mine and then asked if their skin color ****could be rubbed off****. I won't let your kids near mine, ever again..."

this is a story fom the northern burbs, and this is a very "mini" look at aversive racism.... Granted it is only one, but have aboutr 14 others, and everytime I go there, I get another...(one for every journey)


While my writings originally focused on how whites do not "stand up" against their own in blantant racism... I found a very fertile ground in Syracuse's aversive racism..it changed the course of my writing...


here's my *solution*-

Go tell your kids to shovel all the steps (just close to your house that you include the "Other" family), and make sure they shovel ALL the people's steps in the area--it wasn't just the BLACK family, it was: "ok, liitle Bobby, you shovel 5 house up and five house down from ours... (Or just "10 houses up the street..make sure you get the older ladies house (thereby including the BLACK family house).. " then, I bet Santa will be extra impressed..."

Chances are, he'll get invited in for cocoa, discover that yes, Olakatumbo fights with her brothers, just like he does, and he gained a new friend...minus the skin rubbing remark.

YOU: If people's names aren't easily memorizable...WRITE THEM DOWN IN PHONETICS. Take the time to know whom you are speaking to. Nothing says "I respect you" like knowing a name (Ex: What if your name is Mark, and every time I see you I call you Michael...that tells you, I Do-NOT-Care...)

You: Don't ask people to speak for their race. This is a very hard issue, and you're aksing an incedible price...
one that is so horrible, I get smashed on it from every end.....I am not Black, I am not white...and yet I am not the voice, I am merely the story teller.. the journal writer... Quanitaitive analysis doesn't work well here..I can only relate what I see and record...

More for the next..

Please, B and SG-- tell me what is good and bad in your perceived neighborhoods, especially in terms of 1.) racial interation 2.) gender interaction

tell me where you think I could sit, for a month, and find an Erving Goffman sort of time for study (Ie, get to know the place, draw insight from the behaviors of the locals...)..I'll tell you of months of Syracuse, if you like... It isn't nice.

[Sgoldie]

I'll private message you, ok?

[Ham Sandwich]

Originally Posted by Sgoldie

I'll private message you, ok?

Yes

feel free

[WannaGoHome]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I have a degree in sociology from a really well regarded program here in CA and I don't agree with a lot of what Ham Sandwich says. If someone doesn't remember someone's name, it's usually because it is not linguistically familiar to them. It doesn't mean that they don't care. I try really hard to remember people's name. I forget Mike Smith more than I forget anything out of the ordinary. I'm forgetful, but I apologize. I'm not careless, I just need time to adjust. A lot of others are the same. You sound incredibly bitter. Either you need to leave Syracuse or your profession because I feel that something is seriously biting you deeply. I hope that eventually you will be able to see that a lot of the country is like what you described and that it's really not just Syracuse. Everyone uses the N word. It's a fact. It's perpetuated by intelligent black youth as well who use it as a form of being "endearing" to each other. It's really not ok for anyone to use it. Why would you want to "own" a word so derogatory (In response to those who say that it's ok for black people to use it. why?) Everyone is wrong. It's not just white kids doing this. Everyone needs to stop. Get out of Syracuse, you obviously don't like it.

For those others who actually gave me answers to the questions I asked, thank you. I really appreciate it. :-)

[Ham Sandwich]

Originally Posted by WannaGoHome

Everyone uses the N word. It's a fact. It's perpetuated by intelligent black youth as well who use it as a form of being "endearing" to each other. It's really not ok for anyone to use it. Why would you want to "own" a word so derogatory (In response to those who say that it's ok for black people to use it. why?) Everyone is wrong. It's not just white kids doing this. Everyone needs to stop. Get out of Syracuse, you obviously don't like it.

For those others who actually gave me answers to the questions I asked, thank you. I really appreciate it. :-)

EVERYONE USES the N Word?
All the intelligent "black youth" (and I'm talking Grad students) would shoot you looks of death upon sight for that. PLEASE go look up: Blackpeopleloveus.com (Ie: Black People Love US! dot com) No. We don't.

It may be "endearing" in a video, but try pulling that stunt in an truly BLACK neighnorhood. Even I'd get my butt kicked, and I'm part black.

"It's not really OK for anyone to use it."
Good for you. You've got that one down.

Umm.. "endearing.".ask Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton (neither of whom I've ever seen as very "far sighted"...) No, the fact is that it has been decidedly requested that people (even --gasp--BLACK people!) not use it (by Sharpton and Jackson), has been met with responses such as..."She's a Gold Digga"" on you-Tube IS edited..

"get out of Syracuse":
I came here to study and record race realtions and gender heiracrchies...keep writing..this is soooooooooooooooooooooo awesome. You are now no. 756 in my journal on this subject.

Pardon me, I need to ask, (for the journal) What is your ethnicity?

And sorry to upset you, you merely asked a question on what life was like here in Cuse, from the perspective of a Southern californian transplant. I answered. If you don't like the answer, I'm sorry, it was an honest response.

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only to the extent that we respect his theroy that his wife is beautiful and his children smart." -HL Mencken.

beautiful words... And sort of an analogy...I respect the fact that you consider youself "above the fray", I respect the fact that you are willing to roll the dice on your health and well-being, but I hope you respect the fact that I'm giving you warnings that I didn't have the luck to hear before I moved... And you are angry at my warnings... Ah well, come to "Cuse. Do good things. I hope you and your spouse and children do good things and go far. Blessings upon you...

I also hope that you consider the fact that as a white, you have a whole knap-sack full of unearned goodies and passports that you walk around with, everyday, while an entire population does not have this. Think of this, as you remember not to say the "n" word to your Black neighbor... And no, even if he's "intelligent" he won't like it...

Good luck.
May the Lord Bless you, and make his face to shine upon you
(It's just a Methodist sort of way to say--God still loves you.
So would I, if I were ever to meet you..)

[Ham Sandwich]

Originally Posted by WannaGoHome

sound incredibly bitter. Either you need to leave Syracuse or your profession because I feel that something is seriously biting you deeply.
)

I belive that''s what the women at Seneca Falls were also told (Go look it up in local NY State History)...Yup. they had something seriously biting them, deeply.

[WannaGoHome]

I refuse to give you my racial background and I don't want to be a part of your study. I actually didn't ask for a perspective from a southern california transplant, but that's ok. I just asked a general question, I didn't really care where the poster originally came from. As I didn't grow up in California, your prospective probably wouldn't match mine anyways. I'm not angry at you, I just think that you honestly dislike where you are living and don't see the point in being there if you are truly unhappy with it. I'm not happy with my surroundings and while I've accepted that it is where I am for the time being, I feel happy and at peace knowing that I can find a better place. Perhaps this is something you might consider. If you stop bad-mouthing your town, you might enjoy it. Just a little.

And yes, I've heard plenty of black people call eachother nig*a like putting an "A" on the end lessens it's meaning and makes it cute. It's ridiculous. It's not a replacement for a persons name. It's not endearing. It's not what "unifies you." When I said everyone uses it, I meant all races. It's not white-specific. I've seen countless races use it. And each of them has in some way changed it's pronounciation in an effort to make themselves sound hard and the meaning sound softer (nucka, nikka, nig, etc). It's derogatory out of everyone's mouth. oh and p.s., on this comment: "I also hope that you consider the fact that as a white, you have a whole knap-sack full of unearned goodies and passports that you walk around with, everyday, while an entire population does not have this. Think of this, as you remember not to say the "n" word to your Black neighbor... And no, even if he's "intelligent" he won't like it..."

it's cute you think i'm white. ;-)

So, for all the people not doing pseudo-sociological research: how are master's programs at syracuse U for public health? Also, can anyone let me know about childcare costs for babysitting (don't need full time. i'm just talking a few hours for a night out here and there). I know it's a dreary time weather wise for you all, but I really appreciate your comments. Cheers!

[WannaGoHome]

p.s.-sgoldie, do the natural food stores close earlier than the "name brand" supermarkets? I know here they don't because they are big chains, but my favorites are smaller and they always close at 8 p.m., right when I feel like doing my shopping! Thanks!

[Ham Sandwich]

[quote=WannaGoHome;2170621]it's cute you think i'm white. ;-)
quote]

Ditto. And if you're like me..be prepared. Just an FYI..

[Ham Sandwich]

Originally Posted by WannaGoHome

oh and p.s., on this comment: "I also hope that you consider the fact that as a white, you have a whole knap-sack full of unearned goodies and passports that you walk around with, everyday, while an entire population does not have this. Think of this, as you remember not to say the "n" word to your Black neighbor... And no, even if he's "intelligent" he won't like it..."!

had to take a bit and pull this out of the bookshelves...I'm quoting Peggy McKintosh... "White Priveledge: Unpacking the Invisbible Knapsack" (McIntosh, P. White Priviledge: essentail Readings on the other side of racism, Worth Publishers, U of New Jersey, 2005. ISBN 0-716-8733-4) It's pg 109. It's a bit out of context (She doesn't say exactly that), but most grad students will know this work. EVERY black student I've ever known has known this work. Almost student of color from (even) high school that I've tutored (in the last 2 yrs) knows this work. these are inner city kids. I "turn them on" to bell hooks (Um, yeah, it's s'pose to be lower case), I "turn them on" to Marcuse...Um... I "turn them on" to Angela Davis..(she came here last year, FYI)

If you do not know McIntosh...Don't understand white priveledge?...you are not black. Sorry. Even my Dad (age 79, a wonderful old African American man who survived Korea) knows about McIntosh...