Syracuse or Hartford, CT

[Writerontheisland]

Originally Posted by bellafinzi

Ham Sandwich, Cazenovia isn't a true suburb of Syracuse just yet. The sprawl hasn't connected Manlius with Caz. If you include places like Cazenovia, Central Square and Tully as "suburbs"... than Syracuse's suburbs would be closer to 300,000 in population.

Cazenovia is close to the eastern suburbs of Manlius, that's why I consider it an eastern community. The only real southern towns are LaFayette, Tully, Otisco, and Fabius. Northern Pompey I consider an eastern suburb since it's located right next to Manlius.

I live in Caz. It's 10 miles from Manlius. I couldn't imagine being there w/o a vehicle to get back and forth to the stores. (I believe the original post mentioned there was only one car in the family) Although it is beautiful and has a wonderful downtown with lovely stores and storeowners, for most people's idea of shopping, one needs a vehicle to get back to Fayetteville, Dewitt or places north.

Just curious why you were tying yourself to buying if you are only here for 3 years. Of course, you will do what is right for your family but when I ran my personal numbers it took me 7 years to cover my mortgage costs before my equity started making money. (That wasn't even including some steep repair costs incurred during my homeownership.)

If you included mortgage costs and taxes in your calculations, would it be possible to rent for the same amount of money in a town that offered a bit more of what you wanted? Just a thought. Good luck.

[bellafinzi]

For its size, Syracuse has many of cultural institutions like the Syracuse Symphony, Syracuse Stage, Syracuse Opera, Everson Museum of Art, as well as the Media Unit, the Open Hand and Redhouse Theater, Jazz Central, and several cultural festivals.

Syracuse Symphony http://www.syracusesymphony.org/
Syracuse Vocal Ensemble http://www.syracusevocalensemble.org/
Syracuse Opera http://www.syracuseopera.com/
Performing Arts Center http://www.saltcitycenter.com/
Syracuse Stage http://www.syracusestage.org/
Everson Museum http://www.everson.org/
ThINC http://www.thinc.org/ (broken link)
Syracuse International Film & Video Festival
http://www.syrfilm.com/
The Redhouse http://www.theredhouse.org/

[bellafinzi]

Originally Posted by Writerontheisland

I live in Caz. It's 10 miles from Manlius. I couldn't imagine being there w/o a vehicle to get back and forth to the stores. (I believe the original post mentioned there was only one car in the family) Although it is beautiful and has a wonderful downtown with lovely stores and storeowners, for most people's idea of shopping, one needs a vehicle to get back to Fayetteville, Dewitt or places north.

Cazenovia residents only has itself to blame for that. Every single time a developer proposes a retail development near Cazenovia, all your residents oppose the project. What are their reasons? A retail plaza will ruin the character of Cazenovia.

Most rural residents of CNY are quite confused in their logic. They complain about lack of shopping, lack of gyms (Ham Sandwich), but when new developments are proposed that will bring more shopping they oppose it. Saying it will ruin their rural way of life.

Same could be said of most of Upstate NY. Everyone complains about lack of jobs, lack of growth, lack of development compared to North Carolina. Yet when developers propose a development that will bring jobs, growth and development everyone wants to stop it.

This fear of change and holding on to the past is stifling growth in Upstate. Most residents fail to see that nothing stays the same, and if it does, it usually mean your area is in the doldrums, struggling economically, and not experiencing any healthy growth at all. Upstate NY will stay economically depressed unless they start embracing development.

[Writerontheisland]

Originally Posted by bellafinzi

Cazenovia residents only has itself to blame for that. Every single time a developer proposes a retail development near Cazenovia, all your residents oppose the project. What are their reasons? A retail plaza will ruin the character of Cazenovia.

Most rural residents of CNY are quite confused in their logic. They complain about lack of shopping, lack of gyms (Ham Sandwich), but when new developments are proposed that will bring more shopping they oppose it. Saying it will ruin their rural way of life.

That 10 mile comment is just that: a comment & not a complaint. Although many move here because they desire the isolation from what they would probably term "sprawl", I only offered an opinion that it would be tough for a woman to be alone here w/no vehicle.

I understand and support your point that the lifestyle here does not happen by chance. But I think you point too broad a brush when you say "all your residents oppose the project". Some people are simply are more quiet in their positions. (In this town that's a survival skill )

[YankeeTom]

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich

Ok- here's what I will reveal:

I came here to study Syracuse..and that inclues the Northern suburbs, but my treck hasn't taken me there enough...so I've studied the city and the burbs to the South. The architecture (a la "Alberti on Painting" [transaltion, '72, Martin Kemp publishers], the people, the mindset...I can say that about Alberti because it's going to shock the heck out of some people..."Didn't see that comming, hrump!"

I do want to study the Northern burbs...I haven't gotten there enough to do anything near a draft, but here's a bit of what I know about it:

"Aversive racism" is everywhere. While someone may say "Gosh darn, that Black family lives there, and they haven't even been lynched..." (ok, this is an exaggeration, but you get the idea)...what AA's DON'T tell ther white neighbors is this:

Compare our kids. You tell me if you'd feel happy about this happening to your kids (or you)

1.) Everytime my son/daughter goes to Carousel, s/he is followed by store detectives. It doesn't matter that s/he pays for the items with a (fill in the dept store name) credit card...they are always followed.

2.) Kids (white) on the block, try to be "hip" and "cool" using words like "N*gga", and saying like "yo, yo, raise da roof" when in my child's presence... We don't not speak this way at home. We do not consider it a "compliment." Why do you insist on doing this?

3.) One child has told my child "Isn't that great that you have dark skin--you don't get sunburns! How cool!" (Um no, this is some sort of weird white-people myth)

4.) White neighbors ask me (or my children) to speak for my race on a regular basis... "So tell me, how does the BLACK community feel about this?" or (the ever popular Tioga version) "So there, Mr. Smith...Any Racism in the neighborhood?" Mr. Smith's thought: "If there was, Mr. Jones, I surely wouldn't tell you...your question makes me uncomfortable. . .well, I won't tell you, because that would be rude, and you'd probably deny it...I have to live here with you."

5.) You talk to your *Black* neighbors:

You: "Hi there, Shaniqua!"
(Her name is Shahana-qui-a, but you don't remember that)

Her: Why, hello Mr. Smith.
(She resents the fact that use her first name..and the fact that you don't say it correctly)

You: How's your...little Princess? (talking about children playing together)
Her thought: I know you don't remember Olakatumbo's name, so you gave her the nickname "little prinencess..." get real, buddy. Take 30 seconds and memorize it . O-LA-KA-TUM BO.

Her: "Oh, she's fine... Isn't it nice how they play together?"
Her thought: "Fine...After your kids stared at mine and then asked if their skin color ****could be rubbed off****. I won't let your kids near mine, ever again..."

this is a story fom the northern burbs, and this is a very "mini" look at aversive racism.... Granted it is only one, but have aboutr 14 others, and everytime I go there, I get another...(one for every journey)


While my writings originally focused on how whites do not "stand up" against their own in blantant racism... I found a very fertile ground in Syracuse's aversive racism..it changed the course of my writing...


here's my *solution*-

Go tell your kids to shovel all the steps (just close to your house that you include the "Other" family), and make sure they shovel ALL the people's steps in the area--it wasn't just the BLACK family, it was: "ok, liitle Bobby, you shovel 5 house up and five house down from ours... (Or just "10 houses up the street..make sure you get the older ladies house (thereby including the BLACK family house).. " then, I bet Santa will be extra impressed..."

Chances are, he'll get invited in for cocoa, discover that yes, Olakatumbo fights with her brothers, just like he does, and he gained a new friend...minus the skin rubbing remark.

YOU: If people's names aren't easily memorizable...WRITE THEM DOWN IN PHONETICS. Take the time to know whom you are speaking to. Nothing says "I respect you" like knowing a name (Ex: What if your name is Mark, and every time I see you I call you Michael...that tells you, I Do-NOT-Care...)

You: Don't ask people to speak for their race. This is a very hard issue, and you're aksing an incedible price...
one that is so horrible, I get smashed on it from every end.....I am not Black, I am not white...and yet I am not the voice, I am merely the story teller.. the journal writer... Quanitaitive analysis doesn't work well here..I can only relate what I see and record...

More for the next..

Please, B and SG-- tell me what is good and bad in your perceived neighborhoods, especially in terms of 1.) racial interation 2.) gender interaction

tell me where you think I could sit, for a month, and find an Erving Goffman sort of time for study (Ie, get to know the place, draw insight from the behaviors of the locals...)..I'll tell you of months of Syracuse, if you like... It isn't nice.

You seem like a educated person , but ignorance is not the same as racism.

As I've heard it said " When your a hammer , everything looks like a nail ".

Perhaps the racist is in the mirror.