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Thought I'd start this topic for argument's sake. Let's get all knock down drag out emotional about it :-)
I'm wondering if people new to the Syracuse area are being given the trusty old F-M recommendation too much. It seems that is the stock answer given to anyone looking to move to suburban Syracuse. F-M schools are not the only good schools in the area. It's not the only place where you can buy nice new houses or decent older ones. It's not the only area that has green grass, blue skies, low crime and things to do.
Personally I find F-M to be a "beehive" that can be hellish to travel through on a busy day. Undoubtedly, compared to the hectic beehive that many suburbanites elsewhere in America endure daily, it's more sedate. But there are other suburban towns that are a little more laid back, too. Some of them are also more convenient to the city and its attractions as well.
One of the misunderstandings frequently encountered when giving advice to newcomers to Syracuse... very often they come from parts of the country with staggeringly high home prices. They look at the housing market in the Syracuse area and may not understand that our home prices here are much lower than they are used to, for homes of similar size and quality. They look in the listings for stuff that is the price they are used to, or a "bargain" in their eyes, and they see the higher priced homes in F-M area and think maybe those are the only good properties. They'll see a $150K house in Camillus or Marcellus and think it's got something wrong with it, when actually... $150K gets you a pretty nice, well-built older home with a decent sized yard in a pleasant, tree lined neighborhood... something they might pay $400K or more for where they came from.
Everyone recommends what they know; but this topic is just questioning the over emphasis on Fayetteville and Manlius a bit. The Syracuse area is NOT just F-M, Tipperary Hill, and Strathmore. Far from it!
Personally, and no offense to anyone living in F-M, but I find the whole area over rated. The homes, for what they are, are over priced as opposed to the same home in Clay or Cicero. The only thing that FM might have over Clay, and def over Cicero, is the availability of stores--restaurants, and alike. When we moved back from Vegas we had the chance to pretty much buy a house in any section and we chose Cicero. We chose it for a number of reasons, I grew up in the area, being close to my brother, etc but as far as location you can't beat it--its close to the lake for those summer picnics, close enough to the mall and city area so we can get to either in 15 minutes but removed enough to the point its quiet and virtually crime free--I subscribe to Cicero's epolicing email service and the crime in Cicero is minimal and I feel so safe in my neighborhood that we leave the windows and doors unlocked at night. Having spoken with a sheriff prior to moving I know theres more crime in FM (theft, etc) than Cicero. I have also found people in Cicero are more friendly-not saying that people in FM are not (coming from Vegas I know that the majority of people in CNY are friendly) but people in FM tend to be more snobbish--regardless of the fact my house is just as nice as theirs, etc
I think there is a large resentment exhibited by many Syracuse natives toward eastern suburban communities like Fayetteville and Manlius. In general, there seems to be a large amount of class warfare that is directed at what many would refer to as "yuppies" or "white collar" professionals. Perhaps this hostility explains why many relocating people decide to settle in the eastern suburbs. I think the Syracuse area's hyper populist mentality, fueled by the region's once blue collar dominated economy and the subsequent loss of high paying manufacturing jobs is a big turnoff to upwardly mobile outsiders who enjoy some of the finer things in life and don't want to be excoriated because they drive a Lexus or non American made car, wear nice clothes or shop at places above Wal-Mart. The reality is most doctors, lawyers and executives that relocate from major east and west coast cities and suburbs will feel more comfortable in places like Fayetteville, Manlius, Jamesville, DeWitt and Cazenovia than they will in more blue collar middle class towns like Cicero, Clay, and Liverpool. Although said communities in the northern and western suburbs have their share of professionals, most are home grown and have selected these towns because they either grew up there or have a fondness for the more laid back lifestyle. Also, let's face it, snotty people prefer to live with those amongst their own. People that are egomaniacs and want nothing but the best will be happier in places like Fayetteville and Manlius because those communities more closely resemble the affluent suburbs in which they relocated from. That being said, there are many professionals that came from more humble beginnings that might prefer other suburbs as they want their children to be raised in less of a "pressure cooker" environment in reference to schools and keeping up with the joneses.
As far as crime, it would make sense that F-M would have more cases of theft because luxury homes and other accoutrements like upscale european cars are far more common there than in places like Cicero. While the Pastures, Lisi Gardens, Bay Colony, and few others are nice developments, the size of those homes comes nowhere close to rivaling the many subdivisions in the eastern suburbs. In fairness, I agree that there are many homes on the east side that are unremarkable and cookie cutter. For the record, crime rates in all categories in Fayetteville and Manlius are still significantly below the national level according to crime statistics from FBI and City Data. Clay and Cicero have their share of domestic violence incidents including several homicdes over the last few years, so the northern suburbs are far from crime free.
It is possible that a sizable amount of relocating professionals would prefer towns like Camillus, Cicero or Clay if they were pitched effectively by real estate brokers? Absolutely! Having family in both the eastern and western suburbs, and having lived for a short time in Camillus, I would recommend this township to anyone. West Genesee and Westhill schools are excellent. Areas like Westvale, Fairmount, Camillus, Marcellus and Onondaga Hill have a nice mixture of blue and white collar families, a population that is friendly and down to earth. There is a nice balance of housing styles and a diversity in price points. The topography of the Western Suburbs is very attractive with its rolling hills and drumlins.
Thought I'd start this topic for argument's sake. Let's get all knock down drag out emotional about it :-)
I'm wondering if people new to the Syracuse area are being given the trusty old F-M recommendation too much. It seems that is the stock answer given to anyone looking to move to suburban Syracuse. F-M schools are not the only good schools in the area. It's not the only place where you can buy nice new houses or decent older ones. It's not the only area that has green grass, blue skies, low crime and things to do.
Personally I find F-M to be a "beehive" that can be hellish to travel through on a busy day. Undoubtedly, compared to the hectic beehive that many suburbanites elsewhere in America endure daily, it's more sedate. But there are other suburban towns that are a little more laid back, too. Some of them are also more convenient to the city and its attractions as well.
One of the misunderstandings frequently encountered when giving advice to newcomers to Syracuse... very often they come from parts of the country with staggeringly high home prices. They look at the housing market in the Syracuse area and may not understand that our home prices here are much lower than they are used to, for homes of similar size and quality. They look in the listings for stuff that is the price they are used to, or a "bargain" in their eyes, and they see the higher priced homes in F-M area and think maybe those are the only good properties. They'll see a $150K house in Camillus or Marcellus and think it's got something wrong with it, when actually... $150K gets you a pretty nice, well-built older home with a decent sized yard in a pleasant, tree lined neighborhood... something they might pay $400K or more for where they came from.
Everyone recommends what they know; but this topic is just questioning the over emphasis on Fayetteville and Manlius a bit. The Syracuse area is NOT just F-M, Tipperary Hill, and Strathmore. Far from it!
Great point and I believe that a lot of realtors will feed the F-M area to newcomers. I remember when I met a guy that came here to work at SU and he was telling people at a workplace orientation, that realtors were recommending just F-M to him.
I sometimes wonder if it is a thing of getting more out of people like this guy too. Meaning, that they know that the particular area is more "expensive" for lack of a better word and newcomers are willing to pay that much for a house in this area, when in fact, they could get something just as nice and for less. This isn't a knock on the F-M area, but you can live pretty much in any suburban community in this area and be in a place with good schools, things to do, that is safe and that are easy to get to the city of Syracuse from.
I do think that the Western and Northern suburbs have a good mix of people in terms of white collar and blue collar types. You even see a mixture in the towns South of Syracuse like LaFayette, Tully, Fabius, Pompey and the parts of Onondaga south of the city.
In the Eastern suburbs, the East Syracuse-Minoa area is definitely an area with a good mix of white collar and blue collar folks.
One can never discount the impact realtors can have on an area. Based on my observations and research, most realtors in Syracuse are not very educated. Due to the low prices of homes, it is difficult to attract top notch realtors found in more expensive markets. During the boom years in the 1970s and 1980s when Syracuse's home prices were more consistent with the rest of the nation, I would guess that the crop of salespeople was of better quality.
Speaking of unqualified, there is a broker/salesperson team specializing in luxury homes in the eastern suburbs that consists of all former hairdressers and nail technicians from Solvay. A few years ago, the matriarch of this group even brought her then 20 year old son into the action hawking $800,000 homes. Garbage real estate people like this seem to be the norm rather than the exception.
One can never discount the impact realtors can have on an area. Based on my observations and research, most realtors in Syracuse are not very educated. Due to the low prices of homes, it is difficult to attract top notch realtors found in more expensive markets. During the boom years in the 1970s and 1980s when Syracuse's home prices were more consistent with the rest of the nation, I would guess that the crop of salespeople was of better quality.
Speaking of unqualified, there is a broker/salesperson team specializing in luxury homes in the eastern suburbs that consists of all former hairdressers and nail technicians from Solvay. A few years ago, the matriarch of this group even brought her then 20 year old son into the action hawking $800,000 homes. Garbage real estate people like this seem to be the norm rather than the exception.
That could be the case, many times, unfortunately.
Great point and I believe that a lot of realtors will feed the F-M area to newcomers. I remember when I met a guy that came here to work at SU and he was telling people at a workplace orientation, that realtors were recommending just F-M to him.
I can vouch for that as well. When I relocated here I wanted to see every area and was consistently pushed towards FM...with some degree of JD as well. Being somebody of humble beginnings, I didn't see the value in FM vs. other areas as being enough to pay the increased prices there.
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I sometimes wonder if it is a thing of getting more out of people like this guy too. Meaning, that they know that the particular area is more "expensive" for lack of a better word and newcomers are willing to pay that much for a house in this area, when in fact, they could get something just as nice and for less. This isn't a knock on the F-M area, but you can live pretty much in any suburban community in this area and be in a place with good schools, things to do, that is safe and that are easy to get to the city of Syracuse from.
Yes...this too. Luckily, being from Florida I was used to this trick by realtors. Down there, you get a multitude of retirees from the major metro areas and many would jump at the first house they saw because they couldnt believe how cheap it was compared to where they came from. This wasn't the case for me, however...values are fairly similar (though currently FL is lower due the housing bust). Taxes were the concern for me.
One can never discount the impact realtors can have on an area. Based on my observations and research, most realtors in Syracuse are not very educated. Due to the low prices of homes, it is difficult to attract top notch realtors found in more expensive markets. During the boom years in the 1970s and 1980s when Syracuse's home prices were more consistent with the rest of the nation, I would guess that the crop of salespeople was of better quality.
Yeah...I have to say in all honesty...I was pretty underwhelmed with the general knowledge of real estate laws, closing practices, financing options, etc. by the realtors I met. I'm sure there are plenty that know their stuff, but the few I talked with were pretty "siloed" in terms of being basically just there to open the door and point out the obvious. I would literally start asking all kinds of zoning law questions, property tax breakdown questions, etc. and get blank stares. I gave up after a while.
I actually got better answers from my co-workers & temp neighbors who weren't in real estate or housing in general.
BTW...I don't mean that as a slam on all realtors in the Syracuse area...just going from my own experience.
I'm wondering if people new to the Syracuse area are being given the trusty old F-M recommendation too much. It seems that is the stock answer given to anyone looking to move to suburban Syracuse. F-M schools are not the only good schools in the area. It's not the only place where you can buy nice new houses or decent older ones. It's not the only area that has green grass, blue skies, low crime and things to do.
To answer the original point of the thread...and as an outsider who just relocated to the area...yes, I believe too much emphasis is put on FM. There is certainly nothing wrong with it...but I came to the same conclusions you did and for similar reasons chose Cicero as well. Gotta love Borio's on a hot summer day as well!
First of all, I didn't start this topic as any sort of commentary on the alleged snobbery/unsnobbery of folks who live in F/M. I have no opinions on that, although I too note the preponderance of SU faculty who live there (and in Cazenovia, another over-recommended locale) and now I understand why (the realtors are funneling them there).
However, I just wanted to say that no one on the Syracuse forum ever seems to point out that F/M has drawbacks as well as advantages, the main one in my mind being the relative hecticness brought on by the relative affluence. Personally, I have come to hate driving over there to do any shopping. The whole stretch between Erie Boulevard and Lyndon (I guess that's in Dewitt, but it's where Fayetteville residents shop) is awful to navigate on a busy Saturday; I do not find other suburban commercial strips in the Syracuse area to be anywhere near as unpleasant to journey through by car. Wide multi lane thoroughfares that you couldn't possibly hope to walk across, people crazily lane switching as they try to get to 481 or wherever. And the Dewitt Wegmans is like Grand Central Station, in a way that no other area Wegmans is. It always seems to be bursting at the seams.
Fayetteville Town Center is loathsome: a bunch of big boxes surrounding a humungous sterile parking lot. Even if you like shopping at the stores there, you still have to get in your car and drive two or three times in order to hit all your shops or restaurants. That is insane and represents the very worst of modern suburban development. (Contrast Fairmount Fair where you can easily walk between nearly every establishment.... and can even walk there from some residential neighborhoods, on actual sidewalks.) And let's not forget Northeast Medical aka "Moonbase Alpha." I'm sorry but when I want to visit my doctor I would prefer not to have to take a road map and supplemental oxygen.
So, while F/M has some very nice qualities, they are not particularly unique to the area (except for the sense of "well, everyone who's anyone lives here!")... and does have some drawbacks; and I am not the only one who finds Fayetteville to be a freaking ZOO on the weekends. I think that's a relevant thing to tell people who are looking for good places to live near Syracuse.
Last edited by Jeromeville; 08-22-2009 at 08:14 PM..
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