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Old 02-14-2017, 11:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JmacNY View Post
I think you hit the nail on the head and its one of the main reasons we haven't decided to make the move upstate from Long Island. The taxes are less upstate than they are down on Long Island, but only slightly. Part of it has to do with the fact that NYC gets subsidized by the rest of the state, because I cannot think of any other explanation, and the state budgets are still generally out of whack. Look at something like the MTA....nothing but bloated salaries/pensions/overtime etc...and that needs to get paid somehow. My wife and I each pay 345/month for train tickets into Manhattan to work, roughly 8k a year and the MTA still has a huge budget gap, so much so that they are raising prices again.
A lot of this will depend on what you are comparing and where you look. Some people just look at price, but may not consider what you can get at certain price points and where up here.

No MTA to consider up here as well.
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Old 02-14-2017, 01:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
A lot of this likely comes down to amalgamation, consolidation and overlapping of services as well. The degree of some of these things aren't necessary.

I also wonder if the difference is due to Cortland County also the city of Cortland, whereas Bedford County appears to be more rural/small towns/boroughs.
Human services in PA are generally state services, paid for by more broad based taxes. Sales taxes in PA go right to the state, other than hotel occupancy tax (or Allegheny [Pittsburgh] and Philadelphia counties that both have supplemental sales taxes). PA's "county assistance offices" are state run. Children and youth services and indigent defense does come out of county budgets in PA.

Unlike NY, counties in PA still pay for the courts, including the "magisterial district judges" who are the equivalent of (consolidated) NY town courts.

Likewise with roads, the roads that in NY are "county" roads are almost always state maintained in PA (not just the ones with perceivable numbers, so called "traffic routes" with the shield markers, but many more). "County maintenance offices" for roads are part of PENNDOT.

The DMV that runs through county government in NY, is run by state offices (driver licensing) or state supervised private notary services (vehicle registration).

A PA sheriff only runs the jail, police are either town(ship)/borough or state.

Septic system permitting that runs generally through a NY county health department, goes to a township official in most of PA (often a consortium of townships). Individual water well permitting, in NY through the health department, is unregulated in PA. Restaurant inspections usually default to the state in PA as well, not the county.

For solid waste, counties in PA have a planning responsibility that generally doesn't take the form of operating a landfill or incinerator.

Paying to support a community college in PA is somewhat helter-skelter. Near where I now live, it's actually supported by the school district (as in NY, the schools are separate from county government). The branch campus in Everett says it was paid for by the county government https://www.allegany.edu/x120.xml but I don't see where that is in their budget. (If you're wondering where the community college is in Cortland, see https://www.tc3.edu/ )
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Old 02-14-2017, 02:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ki0eh View Post
Human services in PA are generally state services, paid for by more broad based taxes. Sales taxes in PA go right to the state, other than hotel occupancy tax (or Allegheny [Pittsburgh] and Philadelphia counties that both have supplemental sales taxes). PA's "county assistance offices" are state run. Children and youth services and indigent defense does come out of county budgets in PA.

Unlike NY, counties in PA still pay for the courts, including the "magisterial district judges" who are the equivalent of (consolidated) NY town courts.

Likewise with roads, the roads that in NY are "county" roads are almost always state maintained in PA (not just the ones with perceivable numbers, so called "traffic routes" with the shield markers, but many more). "County maintenance offices" for roads are part of PENNDOT.

The DMV that runs through county government in NY, is run by state offices (driver licensing) or state supervised private notary services (vehicle registration).

A PA sheriff only runs the jail, police are either town(ship)/borough or state.

Septic system permitting that runs generally through a NY county health department, goes to a township official in most of PA (often a consortium of townships). Individual water well permitting, in NY through the health department, is unregulated in PA. Restaurant inspections usually default to the state in PA as well, not the county.

For solid waste, counties in PA have a planning responsibility that generally doesn't take the form of operating a landfill or incinerator.

Paying to support a community college in PA is somewhat helter-skelter. Near where I now live, it's actually supported by the school district (as in NY, the schools are separate from county government). The branch campus in Everett says it was paid for by the county government https://www.allegany.edu/x120.xml but I don't see where that is in their budget. (If you're wondering where the community college is in Cortland, see https://www.tc3.edu/ )
So, it looks like the county is out of the equation in terms of many services in PA, whereas they may be another "layer" in NY. Yes? No?
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Old 02-15-2017, 06:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
So, it looks like the county is out of the equation in terms of many services in PA, whereas they may be another "layer" in NY. Yes? No?
Yes. A PA county is a little more like a New England county in this respect. That's somewhat obscured by the curious fact that Pennsylvania township names can repeat, unlike New England or New York town names.

It may be an open question as to whether PA service provision (roads, social services, health) is more efficiently done by the state or whether the services are lower quality. A PA secondary state road is typically just not built to the standard of a typical NY county road. Even the numbered "traffic routes" in PA often lack paved shoulders. One must also admit that larger parts of upstate NY are burdened with routine snow removal needs than PA.
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Old 02-15-2017, 07:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ki0eh View Post
Yes. A PA county is a little more like a New England county in this respect. That's somewhat obscured by the curious fact that Pennsylvania township names can repeat, unlike New England or New York town names.

It may be an open question as to whether PA service provision (roads, social services, health) is more efficiently done by the state or whether the services are lower quality. A PA secondary state road is typically just not built to the standard of a typical NY county road. Even the numbered "traffic routes" in PA often lack paved shoulders. One must also admit that larger parts of upstate NY are burdened with routine snow removal needs than PA.
Interesting, as I think the county level is a relatively recent thing in NY. Onondaga County didn't have a County Executive until 1961 and was ran by a board of supervisors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ononda...t_and_politics So, I wonder if that could be the case if the city and county consolidate or not.

I thought about the weather in regards to the roads comparison and likely plays a big part in the difference.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 02-15-2017 at 07:35 AM..
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:22 PM
 
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I wonder if someone's done a monograph/study on how inferior local governments develop across the USA. It would be even more interesting if developments of local government in response to modernization of society and population shifts were also compared to Canada and UK, where it seems a greater degree of local rationalization/consolidation has occurred.
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:17 PM
 
56,252 posts, read 80,408,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ki0eh View Post
I wonder if someone's done a monograph/study on how inferior local governments develop across the USA. It would be even more interesting if developments of local government in response to modernization of society and population shifts were also compared to Canada and UK, where it seems a greater degree of local rationalization/consolidation has occurred.
I'm sure there is something, as it is something that has occurred in various parts of the US and Internationally.

It seems to be quite common in Canada, where they have been going to metro governments in quite of their bigger areas or have amalgamated towns into some of its cities, with new cities being formed(Gatineau Quebec comes to mind).
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