Holding a line on sprawl (New York, Rochester: best neighborhoods, new home, landscaping)

[seattlenextyear]

In order for sprawl to happen, you need people to, you know, move to Syracuse first. That seems to really be the real hold-up in your plan.

[bellafinzi]

Originally Posted by seattlenextyear

In order for sprawl to happen, you need people to, you know, move to Syracuse first. That seems to really be the real hold-up in your plan.

That is exactly it! The city is dying exactly for that reason. Lack of population growth regionally. The Metro out-migration is larger than in-migration. The region's population is stagnant, which means that the less desirable locations/places/neighborhoods....the city of Syracuse, the older smaller homes, the old factories...are not places seeing the investment since there are not enough people/workers to fill them.

[bellafinzi]

Originally Posted by seattlenextyear

In order for sprawl to happen, you need people to, you know, move to Syracuse first. That seems to really be the real hold-up in your plan.

Opps, I may have misinterpreted your post.

Sprawl is happening in the Syracuse area, but everyone here is trying to stop it. You should go to the meetings on economic development in Syracuse. This is basically want happens at all community discussions.

The question is put forth.... how do we revitalize Syracuse? The answer: stop sprawl.

Next question...how do we attract more people to move to Syracuse? The answer: stop sprawl.

Next question...what will make Syracuse a better place to live? The answer: stop sprawl.

And I'm not even joking. Stopping sprawl is really what everyone here believes will solve all our problems!

My plan for more suburbs outside Syracuse is simple. The more new suburbs there are locally, the more attractive places there are for people to live. The more attractive places for people to live, the more people will want to stay here. The more people living in attractive suburban neighborhoods, the more sophisticated the population of the region becomes. The more sophisticated the population becomes, the more people will want to move here.

[looking4home]

But bellafinzi, you haven't answered my question: what's wrong with the older suburbs? Why do they have to be brand new? There are already suburbs in Syracuse. yes, maybe some have gone downhill a bit over the years, but they were once nice, right? Which means they can be nice again. Gentrifying/revitilizing exisiting suburbs is an important component of Smart Growth, and one that makes more sense, IMO, than doing this to very urban, downtown areas. Urban areas are often very old and decrepit, and so is the infrastructure. It's often too expensive for cities to spend public funds re-doing an area that may or may not ever take off. Tell me what's wrong with the older Syracuse suburbs, and why they aren't good, and is there anything that can be done to fix them?

[bellafinzi]

Originally Posted by looking4home

But bellafinzi, you haven't answered my question: what's wrong with the older suburbs? Why do they have to be brand new? There are already suburbs in Syracuse. yes, maybe some have gone downhill a bit over the years, but they were once nice, right? Which means they can be nice again. Gentrifying/revitilizing exisiting suburbs is an important component of Smart Growth, and one that makes more sense, IMO, than doing this to very urban, downtown areas. Urban areas are often very old and decrepit, and so is the infrastructure. It's often too expensive for cities to spend public funds re-doing an area that may or may not ever take off. Tell me what's wrong with the older Syracuse suburbs, and why they aren't good, and is there anything that can be done to fix them?

Older suburbs.....built in the 40s, 50s and into the 60s.... have very small homes. Most families want a house with at least two bathrooms, a two door garage, and a large floor plan etc.

Another reason why more brand new suburbs are built outside Syracuse is because they are in demand. Families enjoy the good school districts, the large yards, the safe neighborhoods etc. Developers only build homes they know will sell. If there wasn't a demand for all these new suburbs, then developers wouldn't be building them in the first place.

[looking4home]

So it's really a "what came first the chicken or the egg" scenario. do people want the newer suburbs because the developers are building them as sort of eye candy to lure people out of the city? Or are people clammoring loudly for more suburbs to be built? I suppose you could argue that the fact that these new developments are so successful is proof that there's a need being met. But perhaps it's just pandering to human nature - people will always want the bright, shiny new thing, even though it may not be good for the community in the long run.

I think Syracuse also has unique demographics which are a problem. Aside from SU students and maybe faculty, they don't have the type of population that wants to gentrify some old, small houses or turn them into cool lofts, townhouses, condos,etc. I think you have to have a lot of 20-30 yr. olds for that to happen, and let's face it, that's not the strongest demographic in the greater Syracuse area.

[bellafinzi]

Originally Posted by looking4home

I think Syracuse also has unique demographics which are a problem. Aside from SU students and maybe faculty, they don't have the type of population that wants to gentrify some old, small houses or turn them into cool lofts, townhouses, condos,etc. I think you have to have a lot of 20-30 yr. olds for that to happen, and let's face it, that's not the strongest demographic in the greater Syracuse area.

Good point! The city will probably not make a real comeback until the 20 something and 30 something year olds stay in the area. I believe more than 50% of the 20 to 40 year olds are leaving the Syracuse area in order to find a job.


So here’s what's needed:

1) More good paying white collar professional jobs

2) Young people flocking to the region

3) Fast Population growth in Onondaga County. That way the older city neighborhoods become places in demand again due to the cheap housing available there.

Take out one of the above and the chances of the city becoming revitalized are very, very low. Without the jobs, the young people can't afford to live here. Without the young people flocking here, not many other age groups will want to move into the city with the poor school district and higher crime rate. Without the fast growth rate locally, moving back to the city will never catch on since the demand for city homes will never be strong enough to warrant developers and others to invest in the city neighborhoods.

[Northeastcouple]

bellafinzi: You may remember me from the person who recently said thanks for the pics of the "Syracuse Suburbs" in fact I actually found some of the landmarks you had posted in Clay, Ciero and other neighborhoods,you have been very helpful to me and many others and are very nice to talk to...I thank you again!
However,While you are correct that you may need a few more people to relocate to your county, (before you see your area really prosper,) you should also be careful what you wish for, in terms of getting too many people there, too quickly... I grew up in eastern Queens. While most upstaters look at Queens (and the whole entire New York City) as being one giant chaotic noisy polluted place, there was neighborhoods that actually were clean and fairly densely populated especially in my area and only 10 years ago!!! Then they started developing, and developing more, changing things and adding more and more accesories, before you knew it, everything became overcrowded and sloppy, cause it attracted way to many people,that crowd has now pushed out into most of Long Island....I know Im talking about NYC on of the biggest metro areas in the nation, but this same thing can happen anywhere,look at places like Charlotte NC and Florida!!!! When i visited your area it was clean and you actually could find a parking spot when you want to go shopping,you should def. enjoy that....Bring more people there? fix some old homes,and revalitize businsses? A great idea, but as contradicting as this may sound, there should be limitations, otherwise it could become one big clutter bucket and quickly...My wife and I are still considering a move up there, and believe me if we were trying to get into a particular neighborhood,and lets say buy a new home and we couldnt because it met some sort of quota, we would respect that because we know how it is and what it should have been down here...

[looking4home]

What a refreshing post! It's so nice to see someone who's not just selfishly looking out for Number One, and who really cares about the places where people live. Bravo, Northeastcouple!

[Northeastcouple]

looking4home What a refreshing post! It's so nice to see someone who's not just selfishly looking out for Number One, and who really cares about the places where people live. Bravo, Northeastcouple!

WEll thank you, and for the record I do believe Bellafinzi cares a lot and wants the best for his area,a very dedicated person... I just wanted to point out what has happened to a lot of great areas,that maybe doing well financially but at a horrible cost...