Syracuse Suburban Sprawl, good or bad? (Franklin Square, Boston: job transfer, public schools, subsidized)

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by RollsRoyce

With the recent development of new dorms closer to the SU campus, the city and potentially the university should give incentives for multi family and "Inn & Tourist Lodge" zoned properties to be converted back to single family homes. With the projected decline in the number of SU students living in rental homes near the campus, there is a major risk that landlords will have few options but to rent to Section 8 tenants from low income housing projects near downtown and on East Fayette. Not only will this destabalize the neighborhood but will cause a massive flight of educated professionals affiliated with the university, medical corridor, and not-for-profit institutions on the east side. Home values which in many cases have experienced robust appreciation could drop significantly. The influx of displaced section 8 tenants and out-of-town slumlords can largely be attributed to the decline of the North Side.

That reminds me, here is a program incentive by the University for it's employees: Syracuse University: Government and Community Relations - Living in the Community , http://gcr.syr.edu/com/E_Neighborhoo...ing_Report.pdf

and more info.: Syracuse University: Government and Community Relations - University Neighborhood Preservation Association

[jrice]

what they should do to improve occupancy in the city is what Vegas does, if you are in the public service field (ie fireman, police, nurse, etc) if you live within the city limits the city will, after 4 years of living there, pay the remaining mortgage up to a certain amount of money.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by jrice

what they should do to improve occupancy in the city is what Vegas does, if you are in the public service field (ie fireman, police, nurse, etc) if you live within the city limits the city will, after 4 years of living there, pay the remaining mortgage up to a certain amount of money.

I totally agree with that. I bet the crime in the city would drop quickly and those that work for the city, would be more invested in making the city better, if they lived there.

[RollsRoyce]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

That reminds me, here is a program incentive by the University for it's employees: Syracuse University: Government and Community Relations - Living in the Community , http://gcr.syr.edu/com/E_Neighborhoo...ing_Report.pdf

and more info.: Syracuse University: Government and Community Relations - University Neighborhood Preservation Association

Do you know if this program has been successful? It was announced with much fanfare as were other programs by local employers including St. Jospeh's, however I've read little on its success. Although this is a very challenging time for higher-ed institutions, perhaps if SU sweetened the deal by contributing more toward closing costs or financing, the number of employee participating could be larger. Encouraging civil service employees to live in the city should also be a priority, especially police, firefighters and teachers.

[jrice]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

I totally agree with that. I bet the crime in the city would drop quickly and those that work for the city, would be more invested in making the city better, if they lived there.

The crime would drop immensely. My neighborhood, granted its in Cicero, has 2 cicero cops and 1 state trooper living in it, and from what I have heard from several neighbors, has never had an criminal issues at all--no cars broken into, etc.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by RollsRoyce

Do you know if this program has been successful? It was announced with much fanfare as were other programs by local employers including St. Jospeh's, however I've read little on its success. Although this is a very challenging time for higher-ed institutions, perhaps if SU sweetened the deal by contributing more toward closing costs or financing, the number of employee participating could be larger. Encouraging civil service employees to live in the city should also be a priority, especially police, firefighters and teachers.

I believe it has, somewhat. You do see some staff that live in the immediate area, but to the extent, I'm not sure.

[CNYDC]

Originally Posted by bellafinzi

So what you are saying is we should somehow stop construction of all new housing, restaurants and stores in the suburbs?

How would we go about doing that?

Where we can start is to stop extending water and sewer service, at taxpayer expense, further and further out in the suburbs. Without this infrastructure, large-scale development can't happen.

I was dismayed to drive down New Seneca Turnpike between Marcellus and Skaneateles, only to see that someone (Marcellus?, Onondaga County?) has laid a brand new water line for several miles into pristine farmland. This is a silly waste of taxpayer money that will only spread development further into the hinterland.

For me, its not about "stopping" development in the suburbs, its just about not subsidizing it at the expense of potential development in the city.

[Cleveland Park]

Strongly agree with CNYDC above.

Additionally, this http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/us...gewanted=print would be a boon for the city. Not too many better ways to invest money than fixed-line transit. If government is subsidizing any kind of transportation initiatives, it ought to be those that are clean, forward-looking, and drive private-sector investment.

[Wingfoot]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Park

Strongly agree with CNYDC above.

Additionally, this http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/us...gewanted=print would be a boon for the city. Not too many better ways to invest money than fixed-line transit. If government is subsidizing any kind of transportation initiatives, it ought to be those that are clean, forward-looking, and drive private-sector investment.

Wall Street(AKA US goverment) aint financing anything but themself.

[grdnrman]

Originally Posted by bellafinzi

The reason why Syracuse sprawls is very simple. There is a demand for it!

The government can't fix up every old building in the city and make people live there. It sounds like that's what you guys are saying should happen.

Ever think of this. Maybe some people just like raising their family in a place that has good schools, new modern larger houses, homes with big yards, a two car garage, and all in a safe neighborhood.

I'm sure there are a ton of people out there who love living in small old homes, with no backyard, no garage for your car, in a noisy neighborhood that has drug dealing on the corner and lots of break ins, and all with bad schools.

Hey, I'm all for city living in a perfect world. But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in reality. And people deal with reality the best way they can. And if that means families want to move to a suburb, then what's the big deal?

I just found & read this post that you wrote some time ago. You are right on target; absolutely correct.

People just don't think these issues thru realistically considering ALL FACTORS, IDEAS, BELIEFS, & the DESIRES of ALL people. Some people think that all you need to do is "wish" or "wave a magic wand" or "force" people to live inside the city by passing laws to make it illegal/restrict/prevent development in outer suburban areas. NO THANKS!! I do not want to live in an inner city atmosphere even if its all restored 100% and "sparkles" and "shines". YOU (these restrictive people/ideas), CAN'T DECIDE FOR ME what type atmosphere area I MUST live in. I love Boston and visit there often. They have restored many areas around center city and the brick buildings/homes are beautifully restored inside and out. Regardless of how well Boston has restored/finished these buildings/homes, I still would NOT want to live in that center city area even if I could afford it. I just don't think that YOU, "restrictive" solution people, have thought this whole "improve the city" issue thru realistically. Just think of the hundreds of millions of dollars it would take to make Syracuse city a "sparkling jewel". Simply tell me where ALL THAT MONEY is supposed to come from? MOST people who live IN the city do not have and can not afford the cost to improve their property to the high level that you are talking about. I would say that a majority of people IN the city are just trying to pay their current monthly bills, keep food on the table, and try to stay healthy & safe; they don't have extra disposible money! Many people are at poverty & low income levels and have NO prospect to change/improve their situation; these are decent people but they don't have a "money tree" in their backyard or a goose laying "golden eggs" which they can sell. Their limited incomes are not going to magically increase if YOU FORCE these people to improve their homes; they'll just end up homeless or worse. And don't tell me that you will "warehouse" them in new sparkling highrise public housing. There you go again! Trying to decide/force these people into ticky-tacky highrise warehouse public housing; a lot of them just want to live in "their own private homes" in peace.

Please realize that there are NO "magic wand/simplistic" solutions to improve and make Syracuse city a vibrant/successful/energetic metropolis; it will take a lot of planning, work, and $$$MONEY$$$.

Syracuse problems>>1. Low/limited income and poverty level people; they are disadvantaged and just trying to pay their current monthly bills-NO extra income. 2. Crime & senseless murders. 3. Drug use & trafficing which leads to crime. 4. Substandard public schools which could be solved/improved by students taking their education seriously/studying hard/meeting high standards rather than treating school like one big party; get rid of the "attitudes", ban cell phones, prohibit classroom disruptions, punish fighting, and stop loose behavior; shape up! And the parents should support high standards and tough school rules! 5. Empty business building after empty business building. 6. Some dirty/unkept streets & parking lots & areas--tell the city to have the sanitation department and building owners clean them up. 7. Etc, etc. etc.

Syracuse solutions>>1. Keep the two Interstate highways-81 & 690-passing thru downtown "in place", in their current locations and keep them in good safe driveable condition. This alleviates traffic jams which is a major complaint about any center city and the expressways provide easy access/use/visitation to center city areas to do business there. 2. Keep improving "pocket/enclave" sections around the downtown area to target redevelopment of several blocks of property at a time. Such as has been done at Armory Square, Little Italy, Tipperary Hill, Franklin Square, & Westcott Street area. Keep that type redevelopment proceeding. An enclave near downtown that needs MORE encouragement/redevelopment/assistance is the Hawley - Green Streets area; that could be a nice unique business & residential area. 3. Syracuse city must bring more conventions to DOWNTOWN and steer/direct/show/take those people/visitors to city museums and Armory Square, Little Italy & Tipperary Hill restaurants and businesses. Have small trolley buses operate and take visitors between these specific "sightseeing" areas at a nominal/reasonable fee. 4. Syracuse HAS TO get/convince more BIG offices/businesses to locate their facilities at sites DOWNTOWN. These new office buildings should be beautiful/classy/impressive/unique architecture and MUST HAVE connected or "next door" parking garages for their employees & visitors to use. Once several high rise office buildings are established and occupied then you will see small retail shops, small eateries, newsstands, snack bars, gift shops, florists, etc. opening BUT all these small businesses opening are based on Syracuse city getting the big business offices to locate/build/establish IN DOWNTOWN. This is how you can improve center city Syracuse and then people MAY consider moving to the city and having nice/well kept homes and neighborhoods. 5. There's a whole lot more to improving Syracuse city but the steps outlined herein are a good basic start. Keeping Interstates-81 & 690-in good/safe condition at their current locations and having more highrise office buildings with attached parking garages constructed downtown ARE THE FOUNDATION for a better/vibrant/successful future Syracuse. Does anyone have comments on MY comments?