Syracuse Suburban Sprawl, good or bad? (Buffalo, Rochester: fit in, apartment complexes, hotel)

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by beckyhuggs

This is one statement about changing things that I completely agree with. I have a pretty good example of it.

I grew up attending a local church that got it's start more than 150 years ago. At that time, when the church building was built it was built in a very upscale white community. Time changes and that area that was at one time very upscale and white is now the poorest area in Syracuse and is called the South side. However, the members of that church over the last 150 years have all remained white, and upper/middle class people. Most of whom drive in from the suburbs to attend the church.

When I was a child there were many members of the church who said that our church body should abandon the 150 year old building and relocate to the suburbs since we didn't seem to "fit" in on the South side. Frequently the church would get broken into, cars during Sunday services would get broken into and most of the members lived in the suburbs. So everyone felt that it made sense to join the flight to suburbia for the church.

For some reason, the move never occured. At first the church began to make itself a fortress. Alarms were installed and a parking lot patrol was initiated to keep the cars safe.

But slowly over the last five years or so members of the church have begun to change their attitude. Church members met with neighbors of the church and asked "what can we do to be a better neighbor?" Now the church members offer after-school tutoring, block parties in the summer, and other events for the church neighbors. The church members have begun to have a more invested interest in the local neighborhood. They want to see the best happen for their neighbors.

IMO, that is the kind of thing that needs to begin happening. People realizing that in order to have a better city they need to invest in every community, not just the suburban wealthy ones, but the poor one's as well.

Exactly and as the son of a clergyman, I've always thought that faith based initiatives and involvement should be encouraged and increase in urban neighborhoods. It is amazing what could happen when people just interact with each other and listen to ways they can be of any help to the community.

[beckyhuggs]

Originally Posted by bellafinzi

Beautification can be as simple as projects like lining the highways with plants or cleaning up overgrown lots. Or even cleaning up litter.

Bellafinzi, believe it or not I actually agree with you on something

One thing I do like about certain areas of the South while I am living here is the beautiful flowering trees and bushes along the highways. I think it makes a place feel more welcoming.

The only problem I can see with Syracuse doing this is that they would need to find a flowering tree or flowers that would do well year round in Syracuse and would fit the climate in Syracuse.

Also, funding to maintain the green areas would be nice?

Lastly, on a side note. Has anyone ever been to Mount Auburn Cemetery in Boston? Mount Auburn Cemetery It is one of the first "landscaped or garden cemetery's". It's considered to be a major tourist attraction in Boston. Can you believe that we have our own Mount Auburn in Syracuse called Oakwood Cementery? Shades of Oakwood - Oakwood Cemetery The difference is that Mount Auburn is well taken care of and Oakwood less so.

Back to the point that you were talking about Bellafinzi, this cemetery actually comes in direct contact with 81, close to the Salina Steet exit. You can see an old bridge (covered by weeds and over grown vine) but the bridge says "oakwood" on it. This is one area were I think they could really add to the beauty of the city and make it flowering again.

I would love to see this cemetery come back to it's original glory as a garden cemetery.

For those of you who have never walked through Oakwood, you should. It's a great place to walk around and see the beautiful monuments and marbel staircases. Then imagine what it would look like as a "landscaped garden cemetery"

[bellafinzi]

beckyhuggs,
It's nice to know someone agrees with me on something once in awhile.

nice idea about Oakwood Cementery!

[bellafinzi]

Originally Posted by justflow1983

I don't really understand the "because Rochester is worse then its okay" line of thinking, but maybe its time to think beyond upstate on this stuff. I know the sprawl problems are even worse nationwide, and I also appreciate that the scale of new development in Syracuse is pretty small.

The main reason I continue to bring up Rochester is simple.

-The Greater Rochester area is 1. perceived as nicer than Greater Syracuse
2. Greater Rochester attracts many more outsiders looking to move to "the best community to live" in Upstate NY than does Greater Syracuse.

In my opinion there are only two major noticeable differences between Greater Syracuse and Greater Rochester.

1. Greater Rochester is home to at least three times as many well-polished, vibrant, suburban communities built in the last 30 years...which is generally speaking a draw for many people looking at relocating to the area.

2. Rochester's skyline is perceived by most as more ascetically pleasing when viewed side by side with Syracuse's skyline.

Basically, my point is if the Syracuse area had more newly built suburbs in more highly visible locations, most people's perception of Greater Syracuse would drastically improve. Ditto for the skyline.

[TCMaster]

Originally Posted by bellafinzi

The main reason I continue to bring up Rochester is simple.

-The Greater Rochester area is 1. perceived as nicer than Greater Syracuse
2. Greater Rochester attracts many more outsiders looking to move to "the best community to live" in Upstate NY than does Greater Syracuse.

In my opinion there are only two major noticeable differences between Greater Syracuse and Greater Rochester.

1. Greater Rochester is home to at least three times as many well-polished, vibrant, suburban communities built in the last 30 years...which is generally speaking a draw for many people looking at relocating to the area.

2. Rochester's skyline is perceived by most as more ascetically pleasing when viewed side by side with Syracuse's skyline.


Basically, my point is if the Syracuse area had more newly built suburbs in more highly visible locations, most people's perception of Greater Syracuse would drastically improve. Ditto for the skyline.

One MAJOR difference is that Syracuse is not on lake Ontario. That is a big plus for Rochester, and it gives the city more potential. Syracuse is closer to slightly better mountains though...

[bellafinzi]

Originally Posted by TCMaster

One MAJOR difference is that Syracuse is not on lake Ontario. That is a big plus for Rochester, and it gives the city more potential. Syracuse is closer to slightly better mountains though...

Good point!

On the other hand, Toledo, Cleveland and Buffalo are all on Great Lakes too and that doesn't seem to make much of difference in most people's perceptions of those areas.

For most people it's the first impression and the vibe that matters most. Greater Rochester's vibe is better than Greater Syracuse's vibe IMO. That's why I've tried to pinpoint what exactly makes Rochester feel more upbeat. I keep returning back to aesthetics. The Rochester area just looks more neat and tidy.

[CNYDC]

I recently moved to the Syracuse area. What many folks in Syracuse don't seem to understand is that its the natural and agrarian beauty of the surrounding landscape that draws people here. By building conventional suburbs, you are destroying the very thing that attracts people. I could go to pretty much any city in the country and live in a suburb that looks like every other suburb, but I chose Syracuse because it still has tremendous natural beauty just outside the city limits. Shiny new McMansions are not going to make Syracuse competitive, but protecting what it has will.

[Jeromeville]

Rochester has a shinier feel and reputation than Syracuse because it was the home of Kodak and Xerox and all of its white-collar executive jobs. Syracuse, like Buffalo, was more working-class and not so monolithic, they were not "company towns." (I say "was" the home of Kodak because Kodak is a shadow of its former self, yet the white-collar vibe continues on...)

However, let's not forget that for many years, Rochester was the murder capital of New York State, with more murders per capita than even New York City. In short, Rochester is a great place to live but there is probably a bigger difference between rich and poor, and rich and poor stay well segregated. This is part of the reason why an old nickname for Rochester was "Smugtown, U.S.A." (look it up...)

As for Lake Ontario being a plus, that didn't come in handy with the Fast Ferry, which was an embarrassing boondoggle for the city when it became apparent that nobody across the water in Toronto had the high opinion of Rochester that Rochesterians have of themselves. Nobody in Toronto particularly wanted to take the ferry to visit Rochester. Reality bites... and alas I think Rochester is more or less still doomed to a future of reassuring themselves that "Mirror mirror on the wall," they are the Fairest Upstate City of All.

[bellafinzi]

Originally Posted by Jeromeville

Rochester has a shinier feel and reputation than Syracuse because it was the home of Kodak and Xerox and all of its white-collar executive jobs. Syracuse, like Buffalo, was more working-class and not so monolithic, they were not "company towns." (I say "was" the home of Kodak because Kodak is a shadow of its former self, yet the white-collar vibe continues on...)

However, let's not forget that for many years, Rochester was the murder capital of New York State, with more murders per capita than even New York City. In short, Rochester is a great place to live but there is probably a bigger difference between rich and poor, and rich and poor stay well segregated. This is part of the reason why an old nickname for Rochester was "Smugtown, U.S.A." (look it up...)

As for Lake Ontario being a plus, that didn't come in handy with the Fast Ferry, which was an embarrassing boondoggle for the city when it became apparent that nobody across the water in Toronto had the high opinion of Rochester that Rochesterians have of themselves. Nobody in Toronto particularly wanted to take the ferry to visit Rochester. Reality bites... and alas I think Rochester is more or less still doomed to a future of reassuring themselves that "Mirror mirror on the wall," they are the Fairest Upstate City of All.

Great post!

A location so close to Lake Ontario has it's drawbacks too. When the wind is off the lake, it can cool down the weather substantially. Syracuse is far enough from the Great Lakes not to have the high winds or the drastic temperature drops from the winds off the lakes in the summer/warm months.

[bellafinzi]

Originally Posted by CNYDC

I recently moved to the Syracuse area. What many folks in Syracuse don't seem to understand is that its the natural and agrarian beauty of the surrounding landscape that draws people here. By building conventional suburbs, you are destroying the very thing that attracts people. I could go to pretty much any city in the country and live in a suburb that looks like every other suburb, but I chose Syracuse because it still has tremendous natural beauty just outside the city limits. Shiny new McMansions are not going to make Syracuse competitive, but protecting what it has will.

Oh, yes they understand!

Sprawl is THE main topic in the Syracuse area when it comes to economic development. Almost all our civic leadership have focused on stopping sprawl for the past 20 years.