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Old 11-14-2012, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,669 posts, read 2,726,151 times
Reputation: 1704

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RollsRoyce View Post
Hahah. The description was rather unconventional. Fayetteville would be my guess as Skaneateles and Cazenovia are more exburbs, but it is probably one of those three.
Btw, I happened to stumble across this syracuse.com "site plan" of the "original concept" for Township 5 proposed by the Cameron Group. The original (which I would prefer) is a total departure from the current traditional shopping center concept recently touted by Cameron.

The apartments are relative in the same location as the current plan which I think could be incorporated into retail element which is noted in one of the captions (see link), but the original concept emphasizes an "urban village" layout that promotes a "main street" concept framed by retail on both sides of the street, with a traffic circle, and a hotel capping (relatively) one end of the street.

I think it is a travesty that Cameron has departed from its original vision.

http://syracusethenandnow.org/Temp/T...p5Camillus.pdf
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Not Oneida
2,909 posts, read 4,071,434 times
Reputation: 1167
Quote:
Originally Posted by syr83 View Post
Wait didn't you read what he wrote earlier? He is very well traveled and more cultured than the average central new yorker. He also enjoys tampon jokes.

Cultured??

Cultured??

Did I wrong you in a former life or something?? I ain't one of them stuck up snobs.

I said better traveled, by far, the the average CNYer. I go to truck pulls and gun shows for crying out loud.

Don't make it seem like I stick my pinkie out when I drink tea.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:08 AM
 
1,544 posts, read 3,442,709 times
Reputation: 1622
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanplanner View Post
Btw, I happened to stumble across this syracuse.com "site plan" of the "original concept" for Township 5 proposed by the Cameron Group. The original (which I would prefer) is a total departure from the current traditional shopping center concept recently touted by Cameron.

The apartments are relative in the same location as the current plan which I think could be incorporated into retail element which is noted in one of the captions (see link), but the original concept emphasizes an "urban village" layout that promotes a "main street" concept framed by retail on both sides of the street, with a traffic circle, and a hotel capping (relatively) one end of the street.

I think it is a travesty that Cameron has departed from its original vision.

http://syracusethenandnow.org/Temp/T...p5Camillus.pdf

Cameron used to have a rendering on their website containing the original plan and it looked pretty nice or at least decent. I wonder if the scaled back plans and the removal of lifestyle center component was a last ditch effort made by Cameron to secure financing. The East Syracuse-based developer proposed a $300+ million lifestyle center project on the site of a faded mall in the first ring Kansas City suburb of Mission, KS almost 10 years ago. The project - like Township 5 - had difficulty obtaining financing and ended up being scaled down significantly in order to appeal to weary lenders. The project which was once slated to include an aquarium, upscale hotel, and numerous destination retailers ended up signing Wal-Mart which announced it was relocating from an aging shopping center in the adjacent township several miles away.

I had spoken with several developers outside of the Northeast a couple of years ago who said some lenders were very skittish about supporting lifestyle developments due to concerns over the longterm viability of these projects as many of them were located in fast growing, exurban communities that were especially battered during the subprime housing crisis. Obviously, Camillus is an established suburb and the area as a whole was not heavily impacted by subprime lending but lenders in the Syracuse area are notoriously conservative (any many times for good reason) and the fact that the region does not have a true lifestyle center development may have caused some concern about approving funding for the "unknown." One also cannot underestimate the impact of Congel's long evolving Carousel Expansion which had created tremendous uncertainty for existing shopping center operators in the region and likely hobbled leasing efforts as many retailers had been waiting on the sidelines to see the ultimate outcome of the mall project.

There are quite a few of lifestyle centers in slow growth or declining metros with struggling economies. There is a pretty attractive project in suburban Toledo (either in the city of Perrysburg or Sylvania, OH) that includes attractive condos, apartments, and some mid-range and higher-end retail. Another project in the east side Cleveland suburb of Beachwood has been very succesful as well.

Personally, I would rather have no development on that greenfield site in Camillus if Township 5 will be just another, ugly 1990s style shopping center. The region already has plenty of those. After years of significant vacancy, the Route 5 corridor stretching from the town of Geddes border to Camillus has undergone significant reinvestment, including the redevelopment of Fairmount Fair and the old Camillus Mall. Many antiquated shopping plazas across from Fairmount Fair that had many empty storefronts for more than a decade have been filled with solid national and local retailers catering to the strong middle class demographic in the Western Suburbs. A book store like Barnes & Noble or Books-A-Million would be a nice addition as would a few other niche retailers and better restaurant choices. I just don't see how the area will be able to absorb such a significant addition of retail, many of which has the potential to cannibalize business at existing retailers already on Route 5.

I would rather see well designed, in-fill retail development in the city along the Erie Boulevard corridor between Midler Ave and Cherry St and where the long vacant Cinema North sits in Mattydale. A Costco landing in the Northern Lights area or somewhere in the city near Midler Crossing would be a major destination for area shoppers and may lead to potential reinvestment in several vacant lots and retail properties that line both visible retail corridors which not only have solid highway access but provide good visibility to reach passing motorists. The environmental remediation and redevelopment of the the old Winkleman Warehouse between I-690 and Erie Boulevard East would be a major milestone. This is one of the most high profile eyesores in the city.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/materials...ls_pdf/709.pdf

Last edited by RollsRoyce; 11-15-2012 at 11:28 AM..
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:35 AM
 
1,544 posts, read 3,442,709 times
Reputation: 1622
First Niagara Bank to open mortgage processing center in downtown Syracuse

The Buffalo-based bank will open a mortgage processing center in a downtown office building near Armory Square. According to The Post-Standard, First Niagara will initially add 25 jobs to staff the facility which joins two other mortgage processing centers the bank operates in Buffalo and New Haven, CT.

First Niagara to open mortgage processing center in Syracuse, creating 25 jobs | syracuse.com
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:29 PM
 
81,279 posts, read 109,164,536 times
Reputation: 17068
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollsRoyce View Post
Cameron used to have a rendering on their website containing the original plan and it looked pretty nice or at least decent. I wonder if the scaled back plans and the removal of lifestyle center component was a last ditch effort made by Cameron to secure financing. The East Syracuse-based developer proposed a $300+ million lifestyle center project on the site of a faded mall in the first ring Kansas City suburb of Mission, KS almost 10 years ago. The project - like Township 5 - had difficulty obtaining financing and ended up being scaled down significantly in order to appeal to weary lenders. The project which was once slated to include an aquarium, upscale hotel, and numerous destination retailers ended up signing Wal-Mart which announced it was relocating from an aging shopping center in the adjacent township several miles away.

I had spoken with several developers outside of the Northeast a couple of years ago who said some lenders were very skittish about supporting lifestyle developments due to concerns over the longterm viability of these projects as many of them were located in fast growing, exurban communities that were especially battered during the subprime housing crisis. Obviously, Camillus is an established suburb and the area as a whole was not heavily impacted by subprime lending but lenders in the Syracuse area are notoriously conservative (any many times for good reason) and the fact that the region does not have a true lifestyle center development may have caused some concern about approving funding for the "unknown." One also cannot underestimate the impact of Congel's long evolving Carousel Expansion which had created tremendous uncertainty for existing shopping center operators in the region and likely hobbled leasing efforts as many retailers had been waiting on the sidelines to see the ultimate outcome of the mall project.

There are quite a few of lifestyle centers in slow growth or declining metros with struggling economies. There is a pretty attractive project in suburban Toledo (either in the city of Perrysburg or Sylvania, OH) that includes attractive condos, apartments, and some mid-range and higher-end retail. Another project in the east side Cleveland suburb of Beachwood has been very succesful as well.

Personally, I would rather have no development on that greenfield site in Camillus if Township 5 will be just another, ugly 1990s style shopping center. The region already has plenty of those. After years of significant vacancy, the Route 5 corridor stretching from the town of Geddes border to Camillus has undergone significant reinvestment, including the redevelopment of Fairmount Fair and the old Camillus Mall. Many antiquated shopping plazas across from Fairmount Fair that had many empty storefronts for more than a decade have been filled with solid national and local retailers catering to the strong middle class demographic in the Western Suburbs. A book store like Barnes & Noble or Books-A-Million would be a nice addition as would a few other niche retailers and better restaurant choices. I just don't see how the area will be able to absorb such a significant addition of retail, many of which has the potential to cannibalize business at existing retailers already on Route 5.

I would rather see well designed, in-fill retail development in the city along the Erie Boulevard corridor between Midler Ave and Cherry St and where the long vacant Cinema North sits in Mattydale. A Costco landing in the Northern Lights area or somewhere in the city near Midler Crossing would be a major destination for area shoppers and may lead to potential reinvestment in several vacant lots and retail properties that line both visible retail corridors which not only have solid highway access but provide good visibility to reach passing motorists. The environmental remediation and redevelopment of the the old Winkleman Warehouse between I-690 and Erie Boulevard East would be a major milestone. This is one of the most high profile eyesores in the city.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/materials...ls_pdf/709.pdf
I totally agree, as I think the land between Erie Boulevard east and I-690 could be a good location for development and the same for Mattydale, which could use some development at the former roller skating rink and K-Mart Plaza. I believe that there was talk in the past for a movie theater to be built in the Midler Crossing location by Lowe's, but I'm wondering if that has been scrapped. I think the Green Hills Plaza and the adjacent empty land in Nedrow could use some development as well, considering the lack of retail south of Syracuse until you get to Cortland.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:08 PM
 
288 posts, read 486,243 times
Reputation: 307
Nice little new asset to the Syracuse area ...... Onondaga Lake Visitors Center | syracuse.com
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
580 posts, read 1,127,706 times
Reputation: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
After talking with a work associate, supposedly there will be another Aldi built across the street from Stella's Diner. I wonder if they decided to build there due to Wegmans leaving the North Side and with some development occurring within close proximity(Inner Harbor, Destiny and Hiawatha Heights apartments in the old Muench-Kreutzer candle factory)?

More on the Inner Harbor: syracuse.com : Development agency approves $500,000 for Syracuse Inner Harbor improvements
Interesting to hear. Someone's been remediating the site for some time now; I forget who owns it.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:24 AM
 
1,544 posts, read 3,442,709 times
Reputation: 1622
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
After talking with a work associate, supposedly there will be another Aldi built across the street from Stella's Diner. I wonder if they decided to build there due to Wegmans leaving the North Side and with some development occurring within close proximity(Inner Harbor, Destiny and Hiawatha Heights apartments in the old Muench-Kreutzer candle factory)?

More on the Inner Harbor: syracuse.com : Development agency approves $500,000 for Syracuse Inner Harbor improvements

Is the Aldi going to be built on the vacant lot near Salina and Wolf across from the former Penfield Manufacturing Building? I know there was a roughly 2 acre parcel in that area that has been vacant for sometime.

Here is the lot in question:
1710 n salina syracuse, ny - Google Maps


I hope the city will try to encourage the developer and Aldi to make some adjustments to their generic store design to reflect the surrounding neighborhood which has a lot of brick buildings of varying height. I suspect Aldi probably has the upper hand and will build what it wants considering that area of the city is a "food desert" and the surrounding area has many vacant and underutilized structures. No local official wants to be blamed for killing the project based on design standards; especially considering the Common Council is trying to gain additional influence in planning decisions. It still would be nice to see a well designed building which would improve the density and overall appearance of the neighborhood.

Post-Standard Retail Columnist Bob Niedt hinted that a hotel may be landing somewhere in the immediate area near the Carousel Mall.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:43 AM
 
81,279 posts, read 109,164,536 times
Reputation: 17068
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollsRoyce View Post
Is the Aldi going to be built on the vacant lot near Salina and Wolf across from the former Penfield Manufacturing Building? I know there was a roughly 2 acre parcel in that area that has been vacant for sometime.

Here is the lot in question:
1710 n salina syracuse, ny - Google Maps


I hope the city will try to encourage the developer and Aldi to make some adjustments to their generic store design to reflect the surrounding neighborhood which has a lot of brick buildings of varying height. I suspect Aldi probably has the upper hand and will build what it wants considering that area of the city is a "food desert" and the surrounding area has many vacant and underutilized structures. No local official wants to be blamed for killing the project based on design standards; especially considering the Common Council is trying to gain additional influence in planning decisions. It still would be nice to see a well designed building which would improve the density and overall appearance of the neighborhood.

Post-Standard Retail Columnist Bob Niedt hinted that a hotel may be landing somewhere in the immediate area near the Carousel Mall.
That is the lot. According to the person I talked to, her sister and father after eating at Stella's asked the people at the site what was being built on the lot. I have seen people working there as well. So, it will be interesting to see how the building will look.
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:12 PM
 
81,279 posts, read 109,164,536 times
Reputation: 17068
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
That is the lot. According to the person I talked to, her sister and father after eating at Stella's asked the people at the site what was being built on the lot. I have seen people working there as well. So, it will be interesting to see how the building will look.
Apparently I got some bad information, as I saw a sign stating that Family Dollar is going into that lot. I'm not sure if anything else is going to be built there, but that's what I've seen so far.
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