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To make matters worse the Syracuse area ranked 97 out of 100 (3rd worst) largest metro areas when it comes to the number of jobs recovered following the recession. If Bob Simpson and the other mental midgets running CenterState CEO actually worked in a real business and presided over a company that performed as lousy as the regional economy they would be FIRED. Instead, they can brag about how they are "collaborating" with area stakeholders and ushering in this new era of communication by embracing diverse stakeholders and discussing "regional" growth initatives that are from the "bottom up." Collaboration replete with all of the sexy platitudes and buzzwords like "sustainable" "diverse" "holistic" "organic" "entreprenuerial ecosystem" "co-working" "harnessing" "regional anchors" is nice if it translates into job growth, income growth, population growth, and wealth generation. Since none of this is happening, one has to seriously question the sincerity and effort being made to make this region competitive.
Historically, the different levels of government, businesses, community leaders, and universities have not worked well together in Syracuse. For many years, outside experts and those with a pulse on the vitality of the community believed the reason CNY was declining was a lack of collaboration and communication between various interests. In the last few years, the degree of collaboration has increased substantially and one gets the feeling more key individuals and groups are on the same page. Most reasonable people believe this has been a good thing, however the results have been less than acceptable.
Unfortunately, various economic indicators declined during this so-called transformation and the region has all but given up on attracting high paying jobs and supporting businesses in skilled and technologically advanced industries. I have come to the conclusion that the wrong people are in key positions and the impact is becoming obvious. When 15 incompetent people representing various interests are working together the end result is more damaging than 15 equally useless and unqualified people doing their own thing in the community.
From a purely demographic standpoint (including population size, educational attainment, median age, housing types, ethnic diversity, median income), Syracuse is more attractive than Utica. While Syracuse has many weaknesses, many of the limitations a company would have in Syracuse would be further amplified in Utica due to its smaller size, greater distance from an airport, and fewer amenities.
The decision to locate the nanotech center in Marcy seems to have been driven by politics as opposed to the area being a viable location. It also helps that SUNY IT has embraced this emerging field while colleges in Syracuse have made no attempt to tap into fields like nanotech or even biotech through course offerings, research centers or business/industry collaborations.
ESF was more concerned about championing biomass and other less lucrative technologies that have minimal market potential (with subsidies) while SU and Le Moyne are effectively functioning as liberal arts schools with research limited to narrow fields like urban education and social justice, that while important do not translate into new jobs or considerable economic activity for CNY. Lastly, OCC is more focused on building dorms and nice academic buildings than meeting the needs of local employers beyond dead-end health support positions. In the south, the two-year college system is highly technical in nature and very business friendly. The quality of equipment and connectivity with local employers I have found very impressive. Years ago, OCC created the Whitney Technical Center which was supposed to be focused on lean manufacturing and high tech industries. OCC has since dropped this offering and opted to focus on more dead-end majors.
If there is one major criticism that I think applies to alot of the community leaders in Syracuse it was focusing exclusively on the "green-collar job" and "green movement" as the savior of the region's economy. There was no research that looked in the potential political ramifications of having a divided congress and the limited appetite for "Green" products from the business community and the general public. Instead "green" was looked at as a branding opportunity and slogan for political campaigns and grassroots movements. Without adequate subsidies (rebates or tax credits) available to the consumer and the high costs associates with making products like solar panels in the U.S, this panacea that was pushed by none other than Nancy Cantor, the current and previous mayors of Syracuse, Joanne Mahoney and Rob Simpson ended up imploding in front of our very eyes with taxpayers and area residents being the big losers.
Now with much embarassment, local residents will be looking to little old Utica (ie. the Steubenville and Youngstown of NY) as being more economically vibrant and having greater job opportunities in emerging tech fields.
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excellent points RR, I could not agree more. Though I still think "green" is important to pursue, it is not the only game in town. The big factory is not going to save the day, but pursuing technology like nano-tech and biotech can't be ruled out either.
Remember Bristol Myers Squibb, when suburban Boston and the Clay Business Park were the top two finalists, we all know who won that competition. BMS has a facility in Syracuse, centerstate, local colleges, city, county leaders should have been standing side by side with congressional and senate reps pursing that project. Don't get me wrong, things like downtown redevelopment, the creekwalk, the inner-harbor, connective corridor, etc. are good things, but private capital investment has to be pursued.
Oneida County, SUNY-IT, City of Utica, Rep. Hanna, etc. never gave up on the possibility and were relentless from what I understand. It seems that Syracuse, Onondaga County (though I like Mahoney) and academic "leaders" are clueless beyond "green" and (frankly) lazy, they are not relentless, they just do what ever Albany tells them to do. The area needs leadership with experience in these matters.
Btw, I was curious about your comments about the Whitney Technical Center that (as you point out) had so much promise and fanfare when established, I pulled up OCC's web-site and found the following being offered at Whitney Applied Technology Center:
"Academic Services administrative offices; classrooms for Architecture, Automotive Technology, Business Administration, Computer Studies, Electrical Engineering Technology, Electronic Media Communications, Mechanical Technology, Photography, President's Suite, Whitney Atrium."
Sounds like BOCES!
On the bright side, maybe some of the people you mentioned can learn a thing or two from their counterparts in Utica. If the capital region is any guide, it will be interesting to observe new investment coming to Oneida County accompanied by highly skilled workers, new homes, revenue, etc.
Thanks again, great post!
Last edited by urbanplanner; 07-03-2013 at 09:58 AM..
excellent points RR, I could not agree more. Though I still think "green" is important to pursue, it is not the only game in town. The big factory is not going to save the day, but pursuing technology like nano-tech, biotech complexes can't be ruled out either. Oneida County, SUNY-IT, City of Utica, Rep. Hanna, etc. never gave up on the possibility and were relentless from what I understand. It seems that Syracuse, Onondaga County (though I like Mahoney) and academic "leaders" are clueless beyond "green" and (frankly) lazy, they are not relentless, they just do what ever Albany tells them to do.
I was curious about your comments about the Whitney Technical Center that (as you point out) had so much promise and fanfare when established, I pulled up OCC's web-site and found the following being offered at Whitney Applied Technology Center:
"Academic Services administrative offices; classrooms for Architecture, Automotive Technology, Business Administration, Computer Studies, Electrical Engineering Technology, Electronic Media Communications, Mechanical Technology, Photography, President's Suite, Whitney Atrium."
Sounds like BOCES!
On the bright side, maybe some of the people you mentioned can learn a thing or two from their counterparts in Utica. If the capital region is any guide, it will be interesting to observe new investment coming to Oneida County accompanied by highly skilled workers, new homes, revenue, etc.
Thanks again, great post!
I wish this weren't true and I'd love to find some evidence to suggest these initatives are actually working. I want Syracuse and CNY to be attractive places to live and for businesses to relocate and expand. What I find pretty impressive, is that despite the economy and total mismanagement there are many parts of the area that look very attractive and prosperous. In contrast, I've been to some metro areas in the south that have very impressive population and income growth rates, but look rundown and poorly maintained and have issues including horrible public schools, park systems, and weak or non-existent zoning laws.
If someone were judging the Syracuse area based solely on statistics, they would be pleasantly surprised at just how viable many neighborhoods and some commercial corridors are in CNY from beautiful scenery, architecture, and generally friendly people. Despite all of the gloom and doom (I am guilty of this on too many occasions), there are successful people and businesses. The goal needs to be expanding these opportunities to the broader population and creating a welcome mat for new businesses, college students, and potential residents. It's hard to do that with the incompetent fools running local institutions and governments, not to mention the situation in Albany with a governor more concerned about being President than the future of what was once the "Empire State" and a state legislature that is focused on pandering to various special interests.
I wish this weren't true and I'd love to find some evidence to suggest these initatives are actually working. I want Syracuse and CNY to be attractive places to live and for businesses to relocate and expand. What I find pretty impressive, is that despite the economy and total mismanagement there are many parts of the area that look very attractive and prosperous. In contrast, I've been to some metro areas in the south that have very impressive population and income growth rates, but look rundown and poorly maintained and have issues including horrible public schools, park systems, and weak or non-existent zoning laws.
If someone were judging the Syracuse area based solely on statistics, they would be pleasantly surprised at just how viable many neighborhoods and some commercial corridors are in CNY from beautiful scenery, architecture, and generally friendly people. Despite all of the gloom and doom (I am guilty of this on too many occasions), there are successful people and businesses. The goal needs to be expanding these opportunities to the broader population and creating a welcome mat for new businesses, college students, and potential residents. It's hard to do that with the incompetent fools running local institutions and governments, not to mention the situation in Albany with a governor more concerned about being President than the future of what was once the "Empire State" and a state legislature that is focused on pandering to various special interests.
I try to post with a positive outlook, but it does get hard sometimes. I agree, Syracuse has huge potential and I think it is doing better than most cities in a similiar situation. There are bright spots that we have discussed in nauseum, but the key is to build on its strengths while addressing its weaknesses.
It has strong name recognition, viable neighborhoods, impressive capital investment in the City, esp. by the hospitals and colleges, the city's population has stabilized, the metro area all but erased its population loss from the 1990's in the 2010 census. All are good things and I hope they continue, but (as you point out) the area has to move beyond meds and eds toward creating wealth by attracting private capital. Unfortunately, the leadership is not cutting edge (so to speak). What I wouldn't give to read that a nano-tech or bio-tech complex selected Syracuse as a location. Unfortunately/fortunately, (depending on how you look at it) Utica will lead the way initially.
You are correct, there are metros in the south that are impressive on paper, but look rundown and poorly maintained. Take Tampa for example, the downtown skyline looks fantastic and the stats reflect a thriving metro, but drive into Tampa on I-4 and you will see rundown, poorly maintain neighborhoods that I would never exit into. The same is true of Orlando, Dallas and Houston. I have had friends fly into Fort Lauderdale, everything east of Federal Highway (US1) looks impressive, which is all the tourists ever see. Take a drive west of Federal Highway and it is a totally different picture. I think everyone relocates to these areas with high expectations and end up being disappointed.
Last edited by urbanplanner; 07-03-2013 at 10:50 AM..
I try to post with a positive outlook, but it does get hard sometimes. I agree, Syracuse has huge potential and I think it is doing better than most cities in a similiar situation. There are bright spots that we have discussed in nauseum, but the key is to build on its strengths while addressing its weaknesses.
It has strong name recognition, viable neighborhoods, impressive capital investment in the City, esp. by the hospitals and colleges, the city's population has stabilized, the metro area all but erased its population loss from the 1990's in the 2010 census. All are good things and I hope they continue, but (as you point out) the area has to move beyond meds and eds toward creating wealth by attracting private capital. Unfortunately, the leadership is not cutting edge (so to speak). What I wouldn't give to read that a nano-tech or bio-tech complex selected Syracuse as a location. Unfortunately/fortunately, (depending on how you look at it) Utica will lead the way initially.
You are correct, there are metros in the south that are impressive on paper, but look rundown and poorly maintained. Take Tampa for example, the downtown skyline looks fantastic and the stats reflect a thriving metro, but drive into Tampa on I-4 and you will see rundown, poorly maintain neighborhoods that I would never exit into. The same is true of Orlando, Dallas and Houston. I have had friends fly into Fort Lauderdale, everything east of Federal Highway (US1) looks impressive, which is all the tourists ever see. Take a drive west of Federal Highway and it is a totally different picture. I think everyone relocates to these areas with high expectations and end up being disappointed.
Tampa and FTL are excellent examples. My aunt used to live near Federal Highway (or perhaps off another main boulevard type street far removed from the ocean). What was once a nice neighborhood of condos become horrible and the modest 1 and 2 bedroom units adjacent to her condo were rented to Section 8 families, despite it being an age restricted building. Thankfully she got out of there.
As someone who dislikes Florida, I actually liked Tampa but definitely agree with your assessment. I remember taking the shuttle from the airport and seeing some of those blighted neighborhoods under the expressway. I believe that is considered East Tampa? There was a seedy area that consisted of a rundown shopping mall with vagrants right next to the campus of the University of South Florida. I recall they were trying to redevelop the mall property to compliment the campus which had a nice business incubator and research center. The nearby area in Temple Terrace was very nice.
Tampa has the same problem as Syracuse because despite being a large metro in Florida, it is always treated as the poor step child of Orlando and Miami. I remember airport officials at TPA were concerned that the high speed rail that would connect Tampa to Orlando could end up reducing flights at the Tampa airport. Those were legitimate concerns. I think one thing that really a unique asset in Tampa is the Moffit Cancer Center. Not only is that such a well respected institution, the area must benefit from medical tourism and the high caliber of doctors that relocate to the Bay Area.
One thing that struck me about Tampa in a very positive way was the people. Granted, I didn't get to explore the whole area. Unlike South Florida's (I-95) corridor which has a distinctly nasty and brash New York City vibe due to the transplants (my dad's side of the family included), the Tampa area had more of a midwestern and southern flair. I really liked the mansions on Bayshore Blvd.
Tampa and FTL are excellent examples. My aunt used to live near Federal Highway (or perhaps off another main boulevard type street far removed from the ocean). What was once a nice neighborhood of condos become horrible and the modest 1 and 2 bedroom units adjacent to her condo were rented to Section 8 families, despite it being an age restricted building. Thankfully she got out of there.
As someone who dislikes Florida, I actually liked Tampa but definitely agree with your assessment. I remember taking the shuttle from the airport and seeing some of those blighted neighborhoods under the expressway. I believe that is considered East Tampa? There was a seedy area that consisted of a rundown shopping mall with vagrants right next to the campus of the University of South Florida. I recall they were trying to redevelop the mall property to compliment the campus which had a nice business incubator and research center. The nearby area in Temple Terrace was very nice.
Tampa has the same problem as Syracuse because despite being a large metro in Florida, it is always treated as the poor step child of Orlando and Miami. I remember airport officials at TPA were concerned that the high speed rail that would connect Tampa to Orlando could end up reducing flights at the Tampa airport. Those were legitimate concerns. I think one thing that really a unique asset in Tampa is the Moffit Cancer Center. Not only is that such a well respected institution, the area must benefit from medical tourism and the high caliber of doctors that relocate to the Bay Area.
One thing that struck me about Tampa in a very positive way was the people. Granted, I didn't get to explore the whole area. Unlike South Florida's (I-95) corridor which has a distinctly nasty and brash New York City vibe due to the transplants (my dad's side of the family included), the Tampa area had more of a midwestern and southern flair. I really liked the mansions on Bayshore Blvd.
Great way to put it, residents of metro Tampa feel like the "poor step child" of Miami and Orlando. It reminds me of Rodney Dangerfield when he used to say "I don't get no respect", I guess thats because Orlando and the Miami urbanized area (which includes Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach) are the BIG revenue generators and media centers. Plus, every politician is tripping over themselves to satisfy the Cuban population in Miami-Dade and growing Puerto Rican community in Orlando. Despite its name recognition, major league sports, Tampa is taken for granted. You are right, the west coast of Florida is more mid-western and friendly. If someone wants abrasive, then south Florida is the place to be! Orlando is no hot bed of pleasantries either. If I had my way, I would live in the Sarasota-Bradenton area, very nice and an hours drive from Tampa-St. Pete area.
Great way to put it, residents of metro Tampa feel like the "poor step child" of Miami and Orlando. It reminds me of Rodney Dangerfield when he used to say "I don't get no respect", I guess thats because Orlando and the Miami urbanized area (which includes Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach) are the BIG revenue generators and media centers. Plus, every politician is tripping over themselves to satisfy the Cuban population in Miami-Dade and growing Puerto Rican community in Orlando. Despite its name recognition, major league sports, Tampa is taken for granted. You are right, the west coast of Florida is more mid-western and friendly. If someone wants abrasive, then south Florida is the place to be! Orlando is no hot bed of pleasantries either. If I had my way, I would live in the Sarasota-Bradenton area, very nice and an hours drive from Tampa-St. Pete area.
I've heard great things about Sarasota! Despite Miami and Orlando being media centers, I actually thought the quality of the local television news in Tampa was top notch. Orlando has attracted a lot of poor New Yorkers from places like the Bronx, Queens and Yonkers. Cheap housing and good weather is a tough combination to pass up, especially if you resided in some tenament.
I found the TIGER grant application for the CENTRAL NEW YORK REGIONAL INLAND HUB proposed for Manlius and the RFP. The application summarizes the projects regional, national & international transportation impacts, thought it might be of interest.
Nanotechnology complex becoming reality at SUNYIT!
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Interesting! Good for Utica! They've needed good jobs there for quite a while. Nice to see SUNYIT get some serious technology stuffs away from Albany. There's only so much room in Albany! I've been hoping nano would branch out to help other areas and keep more college graduates.
Good points, Rolls and I think a very key point in regards to this and other state involved job actions is the political aspect. I think the situation besides this one that may have involved political actions is the moving of jobs from Homer to Canandaigua(Dynamax to a nano tech center). I never understood why they would move given its proximity to Syracuse and Ithaca area colleges and talent to Canandaigua. So, I wonder if politics are involved when it comes to the nanotechnology industry in Upstate NY.
Canandaigua isn't far from Rochester, Syracuse, and Ithaca. Homer is close to Ithaca and Syracuse. Yes, Canandaigua is further away, but only an hour or so. Maybe a better pool of candidates from UoR and RIT? Tax incentives? Ontario County is not known for being highly taxed and some towns don't have property taxes from the town - only the county. I still wouldn't think of Canandaigua for nano or technology even with FLCC or proximity to ROC because it's such a tourist city and everything seems to be about the lake.
Canandaigua isn't far from Rochester, Syracuse, and Ithaca. Homer is close to Ithaca and Syracuse. Yes, Canandaigua is further away, but only an hour or so. Maybe a better pool of candidates from UoR and RIT? Tax incentives? Ontario County is not known for being highly taxed and some towns don't have property taxes from the town - only the county. I still wouldn't think of Canandaigua for nano or technology even with FLCC or proximity to ROC because it's such a tourist city and everything seems to be about the lake.
That is true about Canandaigua's proximity to those campuses and cities. I was thinking in terms of the Lt. Governor being from the Rochester area, which is the metro Canandaigua is located in, but that could be a failed conspiracy theory on my part.
Another area that looks good in terms of stats, but also has areas that have room for improvement is the Augusta GA area. It is one of the fastest growing metros in the South and while I was there in 1999-2000, it had an abandoned mall(Regency Mall) near Gordon Highway and areas of the former/old city of Augusta that were kind of vacant too. It is a consolidated city-county government except for Hephzibah and Blythe near Fort Gordon. Before the consolidation, it was a city that was suffering from population flight from a peak of a little over 71,000 in 1950 to just under 45,000 in 1990(consolidated in 1996). So, sometimes it is a matter of some areas doing things to offset patterns of decline. Don't get me wrong though, the Augusta Mall was/is nice and Washington Road had plenty of shopping/restaurants too. I think ss20ts may be familiar with the area too. Oh and Martinez isn't pronounced like you think it is.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 07-03-2013 at 02:44 PM..
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Orlando is no hot bed of pleasantries either. If I had my way, I would live in the Sarasota-Bradenton area, very nice and an hours drive from Tampa-St. Pete area.
