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I think he was referring to the opportunity for more community-based startup retail business and discount shopping, something Shoppingtown is already saturated with.
Mr. Pryor was interviewed by the Baton Rouge newspaper following Moonbeam's acquisition of a failing mall that faces competition with the Mall of Louisiana on the other side of town. Here is an excerpt: Seeking a brighter future | Business | The Advocate — Baton Rouge, LA Cortana Mall may be known as the half-empty mall at Florida Boulevard and Airline Highway, but its new owners and management team see it as half full. That optimism is fueled by a belief that, despite an exodus of interior tenants over the last decade, Baton Rouge is still a two-mall city and Cortana has a future as a discount shopping and entertainment destination. But in the short term, Las Vegas-based Moonbeam Capital Inc. is urging a little patience about a month after it bought the interior portion of the mall for $6 million"
Here's more from the article:
Cortana is not going to be a high-end lifestyle center from a price-point perspective,” he said. “I think Cortana can offer shopping and entertainment opportunities to a different demo than what the Mall of Louisiana is catering to right now, with a lower price point, more of a discount venue.” Jonathan Walker, a retail broker with Maestri-Murrell, said he agrees with the strategy of differentiating Cortana from the higher-end offerings along Bluebonnet and Siegen. “North Baton Rouge really isn’t going to attract high-end retailers such as DSW or an Ulta or a Target, but anyone who’s interested in going to North Baton Rouge is going to look at Mall at Cortana first,” he said
The problem in Syracuse is the dominant mall, Destiny does not really have high-end retailers either aside from Lord & Taylor, Apple, assorted fashion outlets and a few expensive chain restaurants. Otherwise, most of the tenants are either moderately priced and increasingly discount. If Pryor believes Shoppingtown, like his other mall properties in Burlington, NJ and Baton Rouge need to be more "big box" and discount oriented than he has few options because many discounters already have locations on Erie Boulevard and Bridge Street. Another Burlington Coat Factory and junk stores like those at Shop City are not going to help Shoppingtown.
I'm wondering if it was a case of using demographic information in regards to North Baton Rouge and in turn, using that in order to have an idea of what stores could work in that area. If this is the case and if they do proper research, there may be hope for Shoppingtown. If it is what you stated, then it will be more of the same.
I'm wondering if it was a case of using demographic information in regards to North Baton Rouge and in turn, using that in order to have an idea of what stores could work in that area. If this is the case and if they do proper research, there may be hope for Shoppingtown. If it is what you stated, then it will be more of the same.
I don't know anything about North Baton Rouge, but given the statements in the article and comments online, it appears it is a much poorer area than where Shoppingtown is located. The problem is a lot of the demographic reports for real estate properties are developed based solely on the population within a 1, 3, and 5 mile radius from the center. For larger properties and areas which are more rural, say Chittenango, the radius is usually expanded out much further. The average income in the one mile radius of Shoppingtown is rather solid at $70,000 and is $73,000 in the 3 mile radius. Median incomes, however, which is the point where half of the population makes below a certain amount and half makes above are much lower, in the high $40s to low $50s. That is a reflection of the college students at Le Moyne (captured in 1 mile radius) and at SU (3 mile radius) which are "poor" because they have little to no income as well as senior citizens. In addition, some of the high density apartment complexes in the city near Erie Blvd also skew the numbers lower. This metric is done by household, so naturally areas that are dense and saturated with multi-family housing which are also likely to have one breadwinner or single people such as the East Side area near Le Moyne College and East Fayette Street will contain more households. This in turn will far outnumber the affluent population in in lower density, suburban style neighborhoods in DeWitt, Jamesville, Manlius, and Fayetteville and thus skew the numbers lower.
The 5 mile radius from Shoppingtown will include most of the city (with the exception of the west side, far northwest side, southwest side and south Valley) which will overshadow and skew the numbers lower despite high incomes east, southwest, northeast and south of Shoppingtown. Other affluent areas like southern portions of Manlius, town of Pompey, and Cazenovia are too far past the 5 mile band to be reflected in the numbers. Someone unfamiliar with the dynamics and commuting patterns of the area (which may include this owner) will not realize there is very minimal high-end employment in Manlius, Pompey, and Cazenovia and no direct highway access to these communities. Most people who reside in these areas work downtown, at Widewaters Office Park (right next to the mall), in the Carrier Circle Area and on University Hill. As such, these commuters will be passing through this area daily either by way of I-481 directly east of the property, Erie Boulevard East or East Genesee Street.
Another factor is that there are also a lot of senior citizens in the immediate area (e.g Nottingham, Menorah Park, Orvilton, and Jon Craig). These seniors are have middle, upper-middle and affluent lifestyles, but since they are no longer working and draw from other reserves like pensions, 401k, and stock dividends their incomes look much lower than during their working years and also skew down the overall numbers even though they likely have plenty of valuable assets.
In order to address the potential limitations posed by the median income stats in the 5 mile area when it comes to pursuing higher-end retailers, I would suggest explaining the dynamics of commuting patters and the lack of highway access. Including the demographics further east and south would give potential retailers a fuller picture of the area. They already seem to understand the concentration of college students, as evidenced by their draft description of the property on their website. If they can obtain more information about the geographic origin of these students (e.g more fashion conscious, from major metro areas, SU students come from wealthy families) it may help. Unlike Burlington, NJ which is in a heavily trafficked area near many clogged interstates and toll ways, people in Syracuse are willing to drive further distances to shop because traffic is minimal. The congestion at Carousel and how it repels local shoppers, including some who likely live closer to that mall is a phenomenon that is probably not as common in other medium sized metro areas. People want ease of shopping and if that means driving further but avoiding lines and walking far distances from the mammoth parking lot at Carousel, Shoppingtown could have some appeal
I don't know anything about North Baton Rouge, but given the statements in the article and comments online, it appears it is a much poorer area than where Shoppingtown is located. The problem is a lot of the demographic reports for real estate properties are developed based solely on the population within a 1, 3, and 5 mile radius from the center. For larger properties and areas which are more rural, say Chittenango, the radius is usually expanded out much further. The average income in the one mile radius of Shoppingtown is rather solid at $70,000 and is $73,000 in the 3 mile radius. Median incomes, however, which is the point where half of the population makes below a certain amount and half makes above are much lower, in the high $40s to low $50s. That is a reflection of the college students at Le Moyne (captured in 1 mile radius) and at SU (3 mile radius) which are "poor" because they have little to no income as well as senior citizens. In addition, some of the high density apartment complexes in the city near Erie Blvd also skew the numbers lower. This metric is done by household, so naturally areas that are dense and saturated with multi-family housing which are also likely to have one breadwinner or single people such as the East Side area near Le Moyne College and East Fayette Street will contain more households. This in turn will far outnumber the affluent population in in lower density, suburban style neighborhoods in DeWitt, Jamesville, Manlius, and Fayetteville and thus skew the numbers lower.
The 5 mile radius from Shoppingtown will include most of the city (with the exception of the west side, far northwest side, southwest side and south Valley) which will overshadow and skew the numbers lower despite high incomes east, southwest, northeast and south of Shoppingtown. Other affluent areas like southern portions of Manlius, town of Pompey, and Cazenovia are too far past the 5 mile band to be reflected in the numbers. Someone unfamiliar with the dynamics and commuting patterns of the area (which may include this owner) will not realize there is very minimal high-end employment in Manlius, Pompey, and Cazenovia and no direct highway access to these communities. Most people who reside in these areas work downtown, at Widewaters Office Park (right next to the mall), in the Carrier Circle Area and on University Hill. As such, these commuters will be passing through this area daily either by way of I-481 directly east of the property, Erie Boulevard East or East Genesee Street.
Another factor is that there are also a lot of senior citizens in the immediate area (e.g Nottingham, Menorah Park, Orvilton, and Jon Craig). These seniors are have middle, upper-middle and affluent lifestyles, but since they are no longer working and draw from other reserves like pensions, 401k, and stock dividends their incomes look much lower than during their working years and also skew down the overall numbers even though they likely have plenty of valuable assets.
In order to address the potential limitations posed by the median income stats in the 5 mile area when it comes to pursuing higher-end retailers, I would suggest explaining the dynamics of commuting patters and the lack of highway access. Including the demographics further east and south would give potential retailers a fuller picture of the area. They already seem to understand the concentration of college students, as evidenced by their draft description of the property on their website. If they can obtain more information about the geographic origin of these students (e.g more fashion conscious, from major metro areas, SU students come from wealthy families) it may help. Unlike Burlington, NJ which is in a heavily trafficked area near many clogged interstates and toll ways, people in Syracuse are willing to drive further distances to shop because traffic is minimal. The congestion at Carousel and how it repels local shoppers, including some who likely live closer to that mall is a phenomenon that is probably not as common in other medium sized metro areas. People want ease of shopping and if that means driving further but avoiding lines and walking far distances from the mammoth parking lot at Carousel, Shoppingtown could have some appeal
Not to be picky, but the SU student enrollment number listed is about twice as high as the actual number, unless they included all other college students in the immediate area or metro and put it under SU.
We have all read about Marcy's efforts to land a nano tech plant, nothing has materialized thus far. If this is true though it will be huge and I think it has legs. Syracuse really needs to tap into this and can benefit considering its close proximity.
I think Hancock International, the proposed Inland Port, local colleges and companies can really benefit. Its up to Centerstate CEO and the state (your serve RollsRoyce, lol) to make that happen and the Syracuse Regional Airport Authority.
If true, its really exciting.
Last edited by urbanplanner; 09-12-2013 at 12:29 PM..
I suppose the better question is whether or not the Inner Harbor campus was to replace OCC's actual second campus (OCC North, currently in Seneca Mall) or not. While I'd love to see it down there... I'm not entirely certain it makes much sense for OCC strictly speaking, even if it's a good idea for the urban core.
Then again, Rochester's MCC has if I'm not mistaken 5 campuses serving many thousands more students than OCC currently can.
MCC serves 17,000 students and OCC over 12,000, not a significant difference to inhibit a second or even third campus smaller campus.
I agree 5 (+/-) campuses would not work in Syracuse as in Rochester. Much of it has to do with what is being offered and where the demand is. If I remember correctly from initial reports (I am trying to find the article's) that OCC was going to offer classes in Travel Tourism and Hospitality at the new inner-harbor campus, weather that justifies a satellite campus remains to be seen.
We have all read about Marcy's efforts to land a nano tech plant, nothing has materialized thus far. If this is true though it will be huge and I think it has legs. Syracuse really needs to tap into this and can benefit considering its close proximity.
I think Hancock International, the proposed Inland Port, local colleges and companies can really benefit. Its up to Centerstate CEO and the state (your serve RollsRoyce, lol) to make that happen and the Syracuse Regional Airport Authority.
If true, its really exciting.
Now this would be great news and I'd be super stoked but for now you can put me in the believe it when I see it camp.
Over 40 years living in NY has made me a skeptic of these sorta things.
Now this would be great news and I'd be super stoked but for now you can put me in the believe it when I see it camp.
Over 40 years living in NY has made me a skeptic of these sorta things.
I absolutely agree, I will believe it when I see it as well. However, I was pleased to read that the $125 million Center for Computer Chip Commercialization, known as Quad C, is under construction at SUNYIT. According to the article, the facility is expected to bring more than 900 jobs and is slated for completion in late 2014. Nine-hundred (900) high-tech-paying jobs are nothing to sneeze at, the rest remains to be seen.
That SUNY IT was trying to build a girls track team and tried very hard to get my daughter to attend. I strongly encouraged her to do so.
But she wanted to go to school in Pittsburg. Pittsburg?? What the hell is in Pittsburg that draws young people?? Guess I gotta get down there and have her show me around.
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lol) to make that happen and the Syracuse Regional Airport Authority.
