$16 Million Mixed Use Development Proposed for Manlius (New York, Syracuse: real estate, condominium)

[phaelon56]

Now that I have reread it carefully... I believe I stand corrected and that it was sarcastic. Comprehension problem on my part but I hope her humor was no misinterpreted by too many other readers of the syracuse.com site (not that it may matter much based on the type of drivel that often appears on other people's comments there).

[Lonnie2]

Originally Posted by acknight

In the context of the rest of her comment (and the title of the blog posting from which it was copied, "They didn’t pave paradise", I read it as sarcasm aimed at the many comments about parking, aggravating traffic, and things - basically saying in mock horror how dare they have standards and plans and actually stick to them.

Elaborating, here's the closing three paragraphs of the blog entry:

The bold emphasis is not present in the Syracuse.com version, which may be where some of the confusion is coming in.

You are correct. The bolding, the italics, all that didn't show up in the syracuse.com forum (which I probably should go and clarify). I usually do pretty well avoiding this sort of snarkiness in my own posts. But I have to confess, I was really, really angry that while my hometown in all its imperfections had nevertheless managed to actually ACT on its very recent design plans, the great city of Syracuse, which has had its own overlay district design guidelines for James Street in place for eight years, has a mayor who increasingly is being public about his disdain for them. Four years ago I held up the then-current plans for that spot on Fayette St. in Manlius as an example to the (#!$!) Syracuse planning commission of how to do it. I had it posted on my old Walkable Eastwood website. A good number of my neighbors referenced it in their pleas to the commission to prevent unsustainable (single-use, suburban-style) development in our urban neighborhood. It only worked partially. Now there are efforts to completely undo the only protection we have against an Auto Zone from going into a main intersection in Eastwood.

So yes, if this city doesn't get its act together, I would be more than happy to return to Manlius and WALK the same sidewalks I walked as a child, sit down at one of the new cafes across from what really is a charmingly mid-century Sno-Top, and lift a glass with any of the thoughtful people of Manlius who have managed to keep that village pretty darned wonderful.

To get the full picture of my dismay at the typical allow-it-to-rot then-demolish development tactics used throughout upstate New York, take a look at the two most recent posts at "Walkable Eastwood".

As for my comments about Fayetteville and Skaneateles:

Fayetteville had its fight with the whole idea of pulling the center out of the center of the village back in the late '60's and lost. What's left in the center of Fayetteville to actually walk to? Hullars, God bless 'em. A dance studio. A shop or two. Friendly's. Yet it could have had so much more had the mall not gone in. Perhaps the mall is a huge blessing to this village that I can't see. Fine. But give me Skaneateles-type development any day. Who drives to Fayetteville to walk around? Nope, Skaneateles *did* figure it out and people *do* drive all the way out there to enjoy their shops and restaurants. It is a destination, and I contend that any village or neighborhood that will recognize its own unique features and protect them from demolition and/or bad development can also be a destination. This is done in city after city. And Manlius has managed to maintain its own identity without a mall. My other beef with Fayetteville was the way it treated its elderly. Seems there was a big outcry when someone wanted to provide senior housing right smack dab in the middle of the village. It was only when the Immaculate Conception Church offered up some of its land that there could be senior housing in Fayetteville... but alas, not within a walkable distance to the center of the village.

My apologies for the misunderstanding in syracuse.com. I should know better than to try to do sarcasm in text. Phaelon, I owe you an espresso. In Philadelphia. ;-)

[phaelon56]

And I apologize for not seeing the obvious sarcasm. But subtlety is typically more (not less) of a lost art on syracuse.com (on a side note - I am so pleased that I stumbled across these forums).

A strategy that might work on syracuse.com is visible fake HTML tags but alas - that would be lost on the non-technical.

It goes something this:

[SARCASM]I just LOVE the even handed, intelligent and non-racist comments that appear in response to articles on syracuse.com [/SARCASM]

I'll take you up on that espresso but it could be in Scranton - yes?

[phaelon56]

Here's a related question....

Could a development such as the one proposed for Manlius work in Syracuse? Is there a raw space ripe for development where this could be done and if so woudl it be economically viable? That is to say.... could it draw enough people with enough discretionary income such that it would succeed and be able to garner the needed investment money upfront?

I think a chunk of the old Kennedy Square and some land contiguous to that along East Fayette would be ideal and would also have easy access to and from whatever vehicular path succeeds the current Rte 81 overpass system. But I am a dreamer.

The old Jean's potato chip factory is either empty or underutilized.... the old Cooper Decoration building (behind Shehadi's Rugs and it was a bread factory when I was a kid)... the small structure that was once Teddy's Lounge and Lou's Place... the building across from it (where a Cruzin' Chicken place had a very short life a year or so ago).... the Peerless Press building..... the old Armory....

Plenty of underutilized and/or empty buildings there and it's a great location.

[acknight]

Originally Posted by Lonnie2

My apologies for the misunderstanding in syracuse.com. I should know better than to try to do sarcasm in text.

No worries :-) Given how sarcastic I can be, I picked it up pretty easily.

(waves) - Aaron, semi-frequent commenter on your blog.

[ckhthankgod]

I love it the idea and would like to see similar projects in communities like Mattydale, Solvay, East Syracuse, Nedrow and the village of Tully. I think all of those areas could or would see an improvement in terms of people walking in those communities and they all could use a shot in the arm.

[brickroad]

nice! this kind of stuff really works; a similar thing was done where my parents live (manlius-like village outside of cleveland) and its drawn tons more people downtown (and from out of town too) and has re-popularized the idea of living in old houses in the village and walking and biking on the weekends rather than driving.

of course my inner architect only wishes it could be progressively modern, but you can't always have your cake and eat it too....

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by phaelon56

Here's a related question....

Could a development such as the one proposed for Manlius work in Syracuse? Is there a raw space ripe for development where this could be done and if so woudl it be economically viable? That is to say.... could it draw enough people with enough discretionary income such that it would succeed and be able to garner the needed investment money upfront?

I think a chunk of the old Kennedy Square and some land contiguous to that along East Fayette would be ideal and would also have easy access to and from whatever vehicular path succeeds the current Rte 81 overpass system. But I am a dreamer.

The old Jean's potato chip factory is either empty or underutilized.... the old Cooper Decoration building (behind Shehadi's Rugs and it was a bread factory when I was a kid)... the small structure that was once Teddy's Lounge and Lou's Place... the building across from it (where a Cruzin' Chicken place had a very short life a year or so ago).... the Peerless Press building..... the old Armory....

Plenty of underutilized and/or empty buildings there and it's a great location.

It's funny that you brought those buildings up, because I was just thinking about what could be done to them. Lofts would be great for those old factories, if that area could get some development.

Where is the old Jean's potato chip factory, by the way?

[phaelon56]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

Where is the old Jean's potato chip factory, by the way?

1100 block of E Washington between University and Walnut. I think there's an HVAC supply warehouse in there at present but I suspect it's underutilized.

[RollsRoyce]

I would also like to see the former Brennan buildings at 500 East Water Street redeveloped into mixed use properties with housing on the top floor and retail/and or office space on the ground floor. Not only would this make for an excellent gateway into downtown but would complement some recent investments in the surrounding area including the Renaissance Hotel, News 10 Now facility, Center of Excellence, and the University Club building renovation among others. Sean Kirst wrote an article in 2007 regarding a proposal to demolish the buildings in order to create a 35 car parking lot. The buildings are still listed for sale on the Downtown Committee website:
http://development.downtownsyracuse....tail.php?id=13&

In any other city, these buildings would have been redeveloped years ago.


Here is the link to Sean Kirst's 2007 column:
Arrgghh! Saving the Brennan buildings: The newest twist - Sean Kirst - syracuse.com