Move to Dallas TX or Tampa FL??? HELP (St. Petersburg, Spring Hill: foreclosure, insurance)

[JSnFla]

just got back from st pete beach. theres a ton to do over there and its laid back, chill and just a cool place to hang around

[ntfeldman]

I lived in Dallas for 11 years. I've lived in Tampa for 8 1/2.

One caveat - when I lived in Dallas I was single and employed full time. Since I've lived in Tampa, I've been self employed and married with young children. So I see the world differently and do different things with my time. But we eat out a lot and enjoy exploring the city and I'm a real estate broker so it's my job to know the area well... these are my thoughts. There's lots you're probably interested in that hasn't crossed my path in either city! Thiis is just one woman's opinion!

My executive summary - you're going to get less, do less and pay more in Tampa BUT if you love the beach - hey, Dallas is land locked so name your price for the surf.

First the economy:
Dallas - lots of different major fortune 500 companies to work for (many national and international head quarters there too)

Tampa - very few national companies, some do have satellite offices here - Jabil, Techdata are based here, Raymond James, Publix and a number of others are large employers. But nothing on the level of American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, EDS, etc... so the job market here is not as good. There are tons of lower paying ($25K to $45K/year) service jobs but don't expect to move around freely as an executive if you're making over $150K/yr.

Shopping:
Tampa is NOTHING compared to Dallas. It doesn't matter what you buy or what you spend, there's no wholesale mart here or world trade center so other than Dollar Stores (ugh) you won't find any real closeout warehouses here filled with designer close outs, discounted/discontinued furniture or accessories or huge antique malls filled with great finds. Tampa has "flea markets" and most of what's there is imported junk (there are a couple of decent vendors hidden in the masses but oh you work to find them). Ok, there are a TON of Salvation Army stores here and (forgive me) because so many estates are donated to them there are some amazing things hidden there, but again, you're going to work for it.

If you like just the ordinary mall shopping - there are very few major malls here (I'll say 8) and they are nothing spectacular - in Dallas there are dozens including outlet malls (Grapevine Mills is so large you need more than one day to walk through the whole thing!) I go to Atlanta, Orlando or Miami to do any planned shopping.

Restaurants:
Here again I'm going to rag on Tampa. There are at least 200 restaurants that SHOULD be here in Tampa that for some reason don't have a presence in this market. It's hard to find a wide diversity of GOOD food here. There's a Chili's and an Outback Steakhouse within 8 miles of each other all over town but "local flare" takes time to find. We've found some great places near the beach, Dunedin, Downtown St. Pete, Ybor City, Carrollwood, S. Tampa etc.. but you're going to be here for a long time before you find them. Ask everyone you know for recommendations - you'll need them. And, you're really going to struggle to find GOOD Tex/Mex here and a good Margarita. I've had a hard time finding good Indian food and there is not a restaurant ANYWHERE in Tampa that requires gentleman to wear a jacket in the dining room. If you're a no jacket required kind of person, you have free roam of the city. If you'd like a really elegant restaurant to celebrate a special occasion, expect the locals to come in in their shorts and tank tops even at Bern's. (The Tampa Club - which is a members only club - used to require jackets in the dining room for dinner only but even they do not enforce the code.)

Culture:
All the traveling theater shows that come to Dallas come to Tampa. Most bands that perform at Starplex Amphitheater come to the Ford Amphitheater. Our Symphony, our theater, our (rare) Opera performance, children's shows and national comedians all perform at the same three theaters - Tampa Bay Perf. Arts Center, Mahaffey and Ruth Eckerd Hall. There are a few other community theaters here but again, NOTHING like Dallas. Of course Dallas is a much larger city by population but I'm not counting Ft. Worth events. As I see it, one of Tampa's biggest issues is there is a shortage of philanthropists. The same few families donate here. So many of the Sr.s here are on fixed incomes but I am surprised more of them don't have planned giving for the arts here. There aren't even as many charity fundraisers here as there are in Dallas. There is no children's museum (although there is one planned), I have never visited the Tampa Museum of Art - I don't know why, just never have. I used to be a member in Dallas of the DMA. There is NO children's theater here but Ruth Eckert Hall and TBPAC (Tampa Bay Performing Arts Center) do have children's theater programs including acting camps in the summer and after school. Tampa's Sunken Gardens are NOTHING compared to the Dallas Arboretum but frankly little compares to the Dallas Arboretum, it's one of the most beautiful gardens in the US in my opinion. Lowery Park Zoo and the Dallas Zoo are probably pretty comparable. Lowery Park has been given fantastic ratings in the past but I've found a number of the exhibits to be neglected and deteriorating. They certainly don't have the budget Dallas has. The Dallas zoo was just in such a bad part of town. Lowery Park could do better but it's certainly not in our worst area.

Housing:
You can still find a lovely family home of 3 or 4 bedrooms and over 2000 sq.ft. in many reasonable areas of Dallas for under $200K. You've got no prayer of that in Tampa. You'll really have to drive (Spring Hill, Ruskin, Brooksville) to find a home under $200K or you'll have to buy something small and old (1100 sq.ft. built in '62) to find a good home in Tampa (that's not in a crime ridden neighborhood). And speaking of driving -ok, Texas is spread out and Dallas is the poster child (right there next to Atlanta) for urban sprawl but there are freeways in Dallas. You can go anywhere you want in 1 hour. Here you can go far in an hour but you have limited North South freeways and almost no (275/I 4) East West highways. There's no big loop or two around the city that allows you to go where you want. Part of is because of the bay in the middle. But N. Pinellas and Pasco are the worst because they have No real freeways at all. Ok, the Suncoast Parkway goes north/south now and 75 goes north/south but you've got 4 lane highways with stop lights for east west in Pasco and nothing in N. Pinellas. It just means more time in the car to go anywhere (remember you have to hunt for shopping and restaurants so this traffic thing gets compounded)

Sports:
No basket ball in Tampa. Let's leave Baseball out of this team and arena are a sore subject with me - I need a meeting with Stuart! We've got the Bucs and the stadium is nice and fun, of course da Boys are getting new digs so I'm sure they will be amazing. I love the Lighting and I miss the Stars - hockey here rocks for a southern city that's never really seen snow. College sports here are pretty good (go bull's and gators! and cains! and noles!, hook em horns!)

Higher Learning:
I'm going to say that SMU and UT Arlington and of course UTSWMed, NTSU, TWU and UD are esteemed schools with wonderful alum and post grad programs for professionals. Here, Univ Tampa (the other UT!), and Eckert College are ok, limited curriculum. USF seems to be a wonderful school with good degree programs, strong loyal alum and a future vision. Tampa's not Boston but what is right? At least we have the Bright Futures Scholarships and your kids (have to live here a minimum amount of time) can go to college tuition free with the right grades and SAT scores. Can't beat that.

Diversity:
I don't find Tampa as diverse. I work in a lot of demographic numbers and I'm always stunned when I pull up a report on an area or zip code and see that it's 98% white. There's a very small representation of other cultures here and so I feel the area is a lot more homogeneous than big metro cities. Dallas has a lot of different cultures and you can feel them all over town

Worth mentioning - water sports/activities:
Dallas has many lakes - White Rock Lake (east central part of the city) not huge but beautiful and nice to live near. Lake Grapevine - quite large and out by the airport. Lake Lewisville - north of the city and Lake Ray Hubbard - in Rockwall North and East of town but accessible by FREEWAYS!!! So you get to enjoy water-sports. And since you have access to one of the best airports in the country (Ok if you have to change terminals it can stink but as long as you don't it's wonderful) you can go anywhere in the WORLD non-stop. Imagine that - non-stop. Don't count on much of that from Tampa - count on connecting flights to pretty much darn near everywhere!

Tampa - well we have the No. one county in the US with the most miles of shore line. There are some wonderful wonderful beaches - but they are all on the west side. Why there are (almost) no beaches in Hillsborough county is a mystery to me but there just really aren't. So, you don't get to enjoy beaches centrally - you go out of your way or you live year around with tourists in your path. Choose.

One of the things that really surprises me about the Tampa area is that there are so few public or large private marinas. Dallas had tons. Many private home owners have their own boat dock here so maybe that's why but in Miami and places along the east side I see a lot more marinas. Just a curiosity to me.

Well there you have it... between the two, I prefer Dallas. But I'm here in Tampa and it's really a nice city with nice people and no shortage of things to do, you just have to look a little harder to find them.

[PascoDoug]

Originally Posted by Rdiamond

Thank you for your reply. We are really interested in the St Pete area. Is this area nice? We're looking for a beach town free from hurricanes.

You're not going to find a Florida beach town that's free from hurricanes.

The northern east coast has far fewer than the panhandle, west and southern coastlines though. St. Augustine in particular is a beautiful beach town and very rarely takes a hit from hurricanes.

[yukon]

Well said, nfeldman. I lived in Dallas for 12 years, here in Tampa now for 4 years.

Tampa now reminds me of Dallas in the 80's - same growth problems, same employment problems.

I think our traffic in Tampa is worse, good news is the rush hour is shorter here than in Dallas.

Cost of living here is more, pay is about the same (for what I do, anyway). Neither state has a state income tax, so property taxes will be much higher i both states.

The pocket of "plastic people" is smaller here than in Dallas. Pace is slower here, which can be both a good and a bad thing.

More career opportunity in Dallas. Better public transit in Dallas. Tampa transit (HART) is a joke. Pinellas transit is pretty decent. Eventually the counties will realize they need a multi-county agency, but that's a different thread.

Air is cleaner here - very few ozone days.

As to which is better, both cities are good places - it just depends on what is on your "Absolutely Must Have" city list.

[yukon]

Hillsborough County only fronts Tampa Bay, not the Gulf. There are some beaches on the Bay (Rocky Point), but most of the Bay front areas are developed housing & condos, that's probably why there are very few (public) beaches in Hillsborough/Tampa. The rest of the Bay beaches are in Pinellas County.

[m_kayon]

This was great advise, so good I am wondering if you have any advise for me. I am a young (29yrs old) professional currently living in Atlanta, and considering moving to Tampa. My concern is I have heard horrible stories of the slow job market and the ratio for young professionals to older retirees. Obviously, as a single young professional that is not what I want to hear. What is your take on it? Is the job market slow? I am in banking. And is it a good city for singles to meet other singles? I am from Jamaica, is there a lot of caribbean folks? Any suggesstions would be greatly appreciated.

[irishcheese]

We currently live in Destin and lived in Keller for 2 years.

Job took me to Texas and then allowed me to move here.

Job may take me to Tampa.

Near Intertnational Plaza.

Looking for info on Westchase or other fairly close family oriented burbs.

[yukon]

Tampa median age, 2005 was 34.
St Pete median age, 2005, was 39.

We aren't as old as people think we are. But yes, we do have a ton of retirees down here. However, several of my senior neighbors are my role models. A friend of mine is 80 or 81, and he still works for FEMA, on-call. He's one of the guys who goes out and climbs all over the debris to make field reports, which determines what FEMA will give you. Even has his own mobile electronic, web accessible office (he's more tech savvy than I am!). So don't write off the seniors. My 70-something neighbors are ALL in better shape than I am.

I think the retirees who move to the east side of the state move to Florida to die; the ones who move here come to LIVE!

Back to the topic at hand. I'm a bookkeeper/accountant/tax preparer, and I make the same salary here I made in Dallas, Houston and Ft. Lauderdale (approx $40k). It costs me more to live here than it did in Houston or Dallas. My car insurance is less here than it was in TX however.

[JSnFla]

dallas is more of a normal, big city place....tampa has a small town feel thats kinda grown bigger through urban sprawl over the past 10 years...its nice but its not a major city kinda place

[tampaguy03]

Originally Posted by m_kayon

This was great advise, so good I am wondering if you have any advise for me. I am a young (29yrs old) professional currently living in Atlanta, and considering moving to Tampa. My concern is I have heard horrible stories of the slow job market and the ratio for young professionals to older retirees. Obviously, as a single young professional that is not what I want to hear. What is your take on it? Is the job market slow? I am in banking. And is it a good city for singles to meet other singles? I am from Jamaica, is there a lot of caribbean folks? Any suggesstions would be greatly appreciated.

I live in South Tampa, and dont runa cross many retirees(most are in Pinellas County). Very many Young Professionals in South Tampa area as well. The singles scene is Hyde Park/SOHO districts, Channelside, Bay Street at Intl Plaza, and some places in Ybor City.