City of Tampa Wastewater Increase Legality (low income, lease, insurance)

[SeaSpur]

Okay, I've only been living in Florida/Tampa for just under a year...but someone please explain this to me:

On my water bill that just came in, it outlines a rate increase over a period of 4 years at 12% each year. Don't like that, but fine.

However, there are two columns showing the increase structure...one for customers under age 65 and one for those over age 65.

1. How is this not discrimination? I know I live in Florida, but damn. I've always thought that while private entities can do this (insurance, etc), I thought that government regulated services/products like utilities and such could not.

2. Why on Earth do they figure older people deserve a break on the rate? Is there some study or science behind that? I would think older people use the restroom more than I do and are at home more often to flush the toilet, run the sink, and do other activities that consume more water.

I feel like when almost 20% or more of the population is 65 and older in Florida (I'm sure a little higher in Hillsborough County), I am having to subsidize their break on wastewater charges.

[Sgt. Buzzcut]

That's just a drop in the bucket....most low income seniors in the State of Florida are eligible for an additional $25,000 homestead exemption on property taxes.

Yep, we're footing the bill for those who chose a lifetime of not investing and financial planning for their retirement.

[chi_tino]

Age discrimination is perfectly legal if it favors older Americans over younger ones. It is ridiculous, but that's just how it goes (see also: 55 and older communities).

There was a bill proposed a few years ago to make property taxes for the elderly in Florida ZERO. If it had passed, my parents would be receiving the deed to my house with a lifetime lease granted back to me.

In addition, many utilities will have rates that differ by how much money you make.

[algia]

Older people go potty more often, but they get paid LESS money! Let's HOPE for all of our sakes that they don't increase the rates for older ppl....because then we would have a bigger problem: sewage...and I'll live it to that.

"There was a bill proposed a few years ago to make property taxes for the elderly in Florida ZERO"
Well, let's explore that...if they did that they'll only help...because 55+ communities are not in school zones; therefore those ppl most likely have paid off their homes, and they don't need to be supporting schools anymore either, they also paid many years worth of property taxes, and it would be nice to give them a break considering that they still have mad HOAs to deal with, and less income to count on + medical bills. That however will never happen in a greedy society that we are where we have to profit over ppl until they die twice!

[SeaSpur]

They get paid less money? So in essence, you are saying it is the current generation's fault that this older generation did not save and plan for their future?

I respect my elders and believe certain things should be geared to benefit them when it comes to discount- like insurance, because we all know they experiences illnesses and failures of the body that the average 20-40 year old does not.

However, my generation is expected to save, put a lot into their 401k, expand their portfolios, and make smart investments so we can provide for our future when we get that old age. A lot of these benefits won't be there for us. Hell, we even are "supposed" to turn ourselves into one of the healthiest generations by eating better, working out more, and doing all we can to take care of our bodies.

Someone has to take responsibility and I just don't see how anyone should be entitled to lower utility rates or any service provided by a government entity.

[chi_tino]

Originally Posted by algia

"There was a bill proposed a few years ago to make property taxes for the elderly in Florida ZERO"
Well, let's explore that...if they did that they'll only help...because 55+ communities are not in school zones; therefore those ppl most likely have paid off their homes, and they don't need to be supporting schools anymore either, they also paid many years worth of property taxes, and it would be nice to give them a break considering that they still have mad HOAs to deal with, and less income to count on + medical bills. That however will never happen in a greedy society that we are where we have to profit over ppl until they die twice!

No, what would happen is exactly what I envisioned -- everyone with the resources to do so would put their homes in their parents' names to avoid property taxes. Imagine if every person with a $2+ million dollar home did that for estate tax planning. Between that and the massive giveaway to the elderly, property taxes for everyone else would go up by 25% or so to make up for the shortfall.

We already have to pay more for many things because the elderly don't have to pay their fair share. Have you ever filled out a 1040?

You might not know this, since you actually do not live in Florida, but the elderly in Florida already receive massive subsidies on their property taxes due to the Save Our Homes provision. My elderly neighbors in a similar house pay less than 20% of what I do for property taxes because they have lived there for decades.

Greed? I was going to use that term for those who had 50+ years to save up for retirement, in the midst of the greatest surge in the stock market ever (100-fold increase during their working years), and still spent every dime they had. They now demand that government seize everyone else's money to fund their decades of profligate spending (see the original topic -- the elderly are now being given discounted utility services paid for by the rest of us). The "Greatest Generation" should be called The Greediest Generation.

I'm not sure what HOAs have to do with property taxes or the elderly.

[algia]

two things came out of the above two posts:
1. that we are a nation of crooks ("bc everyone would put their homes in their parents names") as if laws couldn't be put in effect to prevent that from happening
&
2. that you all think that every single person in the us that is of working age has the option of working for a company that pays them enough to save.


WOW!

[seain dublin]

Originally Posted by chi_tino

No, what would happen is exactly what I envisioned -- everyone with the resources to do so would put their homes in their parents' names to avoid property taxes. Imagine if every person with a $2+ million dollar home did that for estate tax planning. Between that and the massive giveaway to the elderly, property taxes for everyone else would go up by 25% or so to make up for the shortfall.

We already have to pay more for many things because the elderly don't have to pay their fair share. Have you ever filled out a 1040?

You might not know this, since you actually do not live in Florida, but the elderly in Florida already receive massive subsidies on their property taxes due to the Save Our Homes provision. My elderly neighbors in a similar house pay less than 20% of what I do for property taxes because they have lived there for decades.

Greed? I was going to use that term for those who had 50+ years to save up for retirement, in the midst of the greatest surge in the stock market ever (100-fold increase during their working years), and still spent every dime they had. They now demand that government seize everyone else's money to fund their decades of profligate spending (see the original topic -- the elderly are now being given discounted utility services paid for by the rest of us). The "Greatest Generation" should be called The Greediest Generation.

I'm not sure what HOAs have to do with property taxes or the elderly.

Why do you think that people who have lived in a house for decades that paid much less for their home than you did pay the same amount in property taxes?????

You do know that property taxes are based on the how much you paid for your house?

I saw some whiner on the news not that long ago who bought at the height of the housing boom, she was annoyed that she was paying more in taxes than people who bought in 1986.

That's the way the cookie crumbles.

[chi_tino]

Originally Posted by seain dublin

Why do you think that people who have lived in a house for decades that paid much less for their home than you did pay the same amount in property taxes?????

You do know that property taxes are based on the how much you paid for your house?

I saw some whiner on the news not that long ago who bought at the height of the housing boom, she was annoyed that she was paying more in taxes than people who bought in 1986.

That's the way the cookie crumbles.

If you re-read my post, I am not complaining about that, because that is how the rules are structured. I was just stating a fact. What I objected to is the concept that older people (who are already huge beneficiaries of SOH) should get an extra benefit even on top of that.

And yes, algia, I believe that over the course of your life, everyone should be expected to save for their retirement. However, there are millions of seniors who are living govt-paycheck-to-govt-paycheck because they spent every last dollar on frequent new cars, bigger homes than they should have, luxurious vacations and otherwise living large. This was on top of a stock market that was going up 1,000% per decade.

[algia]

I don't think you have the resources to view everybody's financial situation in order to make judgement calls. There are a ton of people who would love nothing more than the ability to save money but can't! Some due to illnesses, some due to carrying for older people, and if someone is NOT in a field of work that PAYS enough to save, then they are SOL.


You seem to think that every single person in the US makes ALLL this money, and is spending it ALL on God knows what! You are truly mistaken if that's what you think, and I also think that if YOU have been able to save for YOUR retirement, you should consider yourself VERY VERY LUCKY!

I don't agree that the "majority" of people have spent their last dollar on cars etc., that is another minority. Present some data would you? Maybe you're not aware of how many ppl declare bankruptcy because their medical bills are out of control...etc. etc. etc.

Originally Posted by chi_tino

And yes, algia, I believe that over the course of your life, everyone should be expected to save for their retirement. However, there are millions of seniors who are living govt-paycheck-to-govt-paycheck because they spent every last dollar on frequent new cars, bigger homes than they should have, luxurious vacations and otherwise living large. This was on top of a stock market that was going up 1,000% per decade.