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NO offense, but what kind of a moron replaces the condenser only, or the air handler only? I have never heard of such a thing. I always replace my cooling/heating systems ENTIRELY every 10-15 years, before they die on me in the middle of July or January. Everything gets replaced, air handler, condenser, return vents (usually they have to be made bigger or smaller for new unit), wiring, thermostat, DUCTWORK, everything. Repairing A/C components piecemeal seems like a recipe for disaster.
It makes no sense that my 18 seer Trane heat pump saves no money? It's not that uncommon. In fact, expecting a new AC to shave major dollars off your power bill is one of the biggest energy efficiency myths out there.
I don't know anyone who has installed a new cooling/heating system who has told me their power bill is significantly less.
NO ONE. I am not talking about 20 dollars less. I am talking about $50+ less a month. I don't know anyone who had a 150 dollar power bill in July, got a new A/C, and all of a sudden gets a 75 dollar power bill in August. NO ONE.
my old 12 seer system, thermostat at 77, my power bill in July 2012 was $162.
my new 18 seer Trane, thermostat at 77, my power bill in July 2013 was $160.
And this is what I expected because this has been my experience with EVERY SINGLE heating/cooling system I have installed, in Florida, DC, Boston, etc. Yes, that's right, when I got a new top of the line Trane system in Virginia, my bills were, GASP, EXACTLY THE SAME!
No significant savings in electric bill.
The only reason I replace them is because I don't want to be stuck replacing a system in the middle of a July heat wave when the installers have the perfect opportunity to rip me off. Instead I choose when to replace the system, do my research beforehand, and shop and compare for a year or two. In the end, I have the different companies bid on my job. Best way to go. Its best to start this process after year 12, when your A/C is most likely to start having problems.
I highly recommend Trane and getting the extended warranty. They give you zero problems for first 10 years.
Why did you decide on upgrading all the way to 18 seer then? Since it's significantly more money, obviously. A simple answer is fine, by the way. If you meant no offense, I see no reason for the bolded, caps locked and underlined sentences.... Oh and the kind of "moron" that replaces a condenser only would be the "moron" who can't afford an $5-8K replacement, but a $2k replacement, that's who. I'd like to know what kind of a "moron" replaces a 12 seer with an 18 seer if they "know" it will save them $0
First of all the higher the seer the more rebates, incentives, tax breaks. Ends up cheaper than getting a 12 or 16, etc. At least for me this has happened twice now.
Second of all, sometimes you have to go higher seer to get the tonnage/fan speeds you want in the allotted space you have in your house for the air handler. For example, the only air handler from Trane that would fit in my house was the 18 seer, 2 speed air handler, not the 16 seer one, etc. There are many variables.
First of all the higher the seer the more rebates, incentives, tax breaks. Ends up cheaper than getting a 12 or 16, etc. At least for me this has happened twice now.
Second of all, sometimes you have to go higher seer to get the tonnage/fan speeds you want in the allotted space you have in your house for the air handler. For example, the only air handler from Trane that would fit in my house was the 18 seer, 2 speed air handler, not the 16 seer one, etc. There are many variables.
The tax incentive is a big part of what pushed us to get a higher seer as well, since the return on $ is quick. We didn't expect our bill to come down as low as it did - don't get me wrong, we expected a savings, but not as significant as what we got. Our bill from 5/20-6/19 was $312.00. The new system was installed 6/24 and the next bill was $229.00. Duke doesn't list average temps on their bills, but I'm sure it didn't get cooler. I'm itching to see this next bill, 'cause it's been nothing but HOT for the last month.
The tax incentive is a big part of what pushed us to get a higher seer as well, since the return on $ is quick. We didn't expect our bill to come down as low as it did - don't get me wrong, we expected a savings, but not as significant as what we got. Our bill from 5/20-6/19 was $312.00. The new system was installed 6/24 and the next bill was $229.00. Duke doesn't list average temps on their bills, but I'm sure it didn't get cooler. I'm itching to see this next bill, 'cause it's been nothing but HOT for the last month.
What size is your house? My highest bill with an 18 year old 10 seer on a >2500 sq ft house, people home all day, pool pump/lights, electric everything including large freezer in hot garage and outdoor refrigerator and wife who loves all the lights on she can get, plus people who take long showers, plus multiple business computers running in household, was $268. All other bills for us were far far lower. Our average monthly billing is $187 with surge protection and taxes/fees. Doesn't seem to make since to pay out thousands to save so little. I am not completely educated on this at this point.
What size is your house? My highest bill with an 18 year old 10 seer on a >2500 sq ft house, people home all day, pool pump/lights, electric everything including large freezer in hot garage and outdoor refrigerator and wife who loves all the lights on she can get, plus people who take long showers, plus multiple business computers running in household, was $268. All other bills for us were far far lower. Our average monthly billing is $187 with surge protection and taxes/fees. Doesn't seem to make since to pay out thousands to save so little. I am not completely educated on this at this point.
It's also just shy of 2500. All of our appliances, pool pump, and windows are ancient, so I'm sure that doesn't help our case - future projects We weren't willing to spend a single dime on another R22 unit, since the rest of our HVAC system was 14 years old also. You have to replace all the major components because they aren't compatible. The $ difference from 10-12 seer was negligible, 12-15 was about $600, I believe. The tax credit paid for our upgrade. The credit is the same $ on any unit that qualifies, however, like sinatras pointed out - the manufacturer sometimes has rebates available also. Another thing to think about is whether or not you plan on staying in your home the life of the system. The payback is very small if you only stick around for a few years.
It's also just shy of 2500. All of our appliances, pool pump, and windows are ancient, so I'm sure that doesn't help our case - future projects We weren't willing to spend a single dime on another R22 unit, since the rest of our HVAC system was 14 years old also. You have to replace all the major components because they aren't compatible. The $ difference from 10-12 seer was negligible, 12-15 was about $600, I believe. The tax credit paid for our upgrade. The credit is the same $ on any unit that qualifies, however, like sinatras pointed out - the manufacturer sometimes has rebates available also. Another thing to think about is whether or not you plan on staying in your home the life of the system. The payback is very small if you only stick around for a few years.
Our house also has the original single pain crap windows. In order to make it more energy efficient, we would need to change out all the windows, some of which are arched, along with three large double sliding doors. I really cannot see it being financially cost effective for use to change out all those, replace an entire HVAC unit to save just a few bucks on an electric bill. I could drop the bill more by removing the freezer from the garage and stop using a second fridge outside and that is all free......if I wanted to.
I think I would rather just keep my home warranty and let them fix things as they break. I think we would downsize from this house in no more than 10 years anyhow. I really am not unhappy with a $200-$275 summertime electric bill and a $135 winter-springtime electric bill, with all the things we run in a house of this size. I have more of a problem with the water/sewer bill being so high, even after fixing all the leaks and eliminating lawn watering.
Our house also has the original single pain crap windows. In order to make it more energy efficient, we would need to change out all the windows, some of which are arched, along with three large double sliding doors. I really cannot see it being financially cost effective for use to change out all those, replace an entire HVAC unit to save just a few bucks on an electric bill. I could drop the bill more by removing the freezer from the garage and stop using a second fridge outside and that is all free......if I wanted to.
I think I would rather just keep my home warranty and let them fix things as they break. I think we would downsize from this house in no more than 10 years anyhow. I really am not unhappy with a $200-$275 summertime electric bill and a $135 winter-springtime electric bill, with all the things we run in a house of this size. I have more of a problem with the water/sewer bill being so high, even after fixing all the leaks and eliminating lawn watering.
Yeah, I really don't think your bill is unreasonable at all. I'm surprised you have the old windows. I really want to get ours replaced, but I know it's going to be really expensive. We've got 3 sets of sliders that are 8 ft wide and 20 other windows. Some of them are those hand crank ones that fold inward and I know they don't seal very well. Water/sewer bill? Ours is fine....if we don't have our irrigation system turned on. We decided (brilliantly I might add) to leave it on for one billing cycle, 2 months in our case, to see how badly it was leaking - MISTAKE, $390 and we need to have it fixed before they'll adjust the bill.
Yeah, I really don't think your bill is unreasonable at all. I'm surprised you have the old windows. I really want to get ours replaced, but I know it's going to be really expensive. We've got 3 sets of sliders that are 8 ft wide and 20 other windows. Some of them are those hand crank ones that fold inward and I know they don't seal very well. Water/sewer bill? Ours is fine....if we don't have our irrigation system turned on. We decided (brilliantly I might add) to leave it on for one billing cycle, 2 months in our case, to see how badly it was leaking - MISTAKE, $390 and we need to have it fixed before they'll adjust the bill.
Our house is from 1995 and the windows are single pain. Would rather have double pain and impact resistant, but not unless we planned on staying in this house forever. But we will downsize at one some point, so need to be careful in over upgrading.
Again, do your research before you spend thousands on new windows. You will not necessarily get your money back for what you paid on those windows for EONS. We did 2 energy audits on our house (not the TECO audit, but independent audits we PAID hundreds of dollars for) and both of the audits said that our 1963 single pane windows were essentially "not that bad" and that replacing them was gonna cost more than the savings we would get. Also none of the window contractors we got quotes from (when we were thinking about this) would guarantee that our power bill would go down, even 1 cent. What does THAT tell you?
In terms of energy efficiency and savings I think the thing to do is upgrade insulation.
Nothing else we have done has really produced savings (we have new roof, all new appliances, new A/C, house is 75% shaded, etc.).
My house is 2000 sq feet, 1 level ranch, summer bill averages $160-ish.
Again, do your research before you spend thousands on new windows. You will not necessarily get your money back for what you paid on those windows for EONS. We did 2 energy audits on our house (not the TECO audit, but independent audits we PAID hundreds of dollars for) and both of the audits said that our 1963 single pane windows were essentially "not that bad" and that replacing them was gonna cost more than the savings we would get. Also none of the window contractors we got quotes from (when we were thinking about this) would guarantee that our power bill would go down, even 1 cent. What does THAT tell you?
In terms of energy efficiency and savings I think the thing to do is upgrade insulation.
Nothing else we have done has really produced savings (we have new roof, all new appliances, new A/C, house is 75% shaded, etc.).
My house is 2000 sq feet, 1 level ranch, summer bill averages $160-ish.
I'm more interested in how much it would save us on homeowner's insurance. It can be up to 15% from what I understand...but since we're at least a couple years out from doing the windows, I really haven't done any research as of now. I wonder if we'll be able to claim a tax credit by then as well. I know for 2010-2013 it maxes out at $500 collectively, so we won't be eligible until when (or if, I suppose) the credit becomes available to us again. All 3 sets of 8 ft. sliders face the afternoon sun, so I'm hoping we'd see some energy savings. It's basically an entire side of the house being a wall of windows lol. Regardless, I just feel better about having impact resistant windows I suppose. Maybe that's not a good enough reason to replace them but I'll definitely be doing more research before taking the plunge.
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We weren't willing to spend a single dime on another R22 unit, since the rest of our HVAC system was 14 years old also. You have to replace all the major components because they aren't compatible. The $ difference from 10-12 seer was negligible, 12-15 was about $600, I believe. The tax credit paid for our upgrade. The credit is the same $ on any unit that qualifies, however, like sinatras pointed out - the manufacturer sometimes has rebates available also. Another thing to think about is whether or not you plan on staying in your home the life of the system. The payback is very small if you only stick around for a few years.
and we need to have it fixed before they'll adjust the bill.
