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Old 06-26-2013, 06:16 PM
 
2,708 posts, read 4,384,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
In all the countries around the world with universal health care it seems its the government that adopts the task of running it, seems the logical way to go,while big government may not be your cup of tea its the way it is and i cant see it getting any smaller. While small government maybe the preferred option for those on the right in the USA i've yet to see a viable small government that can be pointed out as something the American government should be holding up as an example to aspire to.The usual trend is the bigger the country/population the bigger the government infrastructure.
Yep. But apparently, that has been a rocket science to figure out for many right wing nuts.

What you just mentioned not only is a logical way to run health care but it is the most cost effective one. Let me repeat, it is the most cost effective approach to let the government run the health care as demonstrated by countless studies on the subject.

Last edited by Pragmaticus; 06-26-2013 at 06:49 PM..
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:39 PM
 
3,313 posts, read 4,288,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeInDenudinFL View Post
You have the right to ask how much the service cost in advance and may be decide to go get in another facility next time. It seems your insurance is also part of the reason. Your premium may not be high enough. That's why your portion of the bill is high.
I don't see how it's insurance fault if FL Hospital employees are providing completely incorrect cost of service summary and the final bill is twice (no kidding!) higher. My family experienced this few times already. And by the way, we had to luck to dispute the charge or even lower it since their employees misinformed us... they just mailed bill to the medical collector.
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Old 06-27-2013, 02:14 AM
 
34,238 posts, read 41,236,685 times
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While some may view a program of universal healthcare as some form of socialism they are absolutely right but governments by their very nature have to incorporate various aspects of socialism into their governance if they are to be administering various programs to its citizens.I believe some may fear socialist policies because they erroneously believe that its a step toward communism.
Heres some socialistic programs the government provides for its people.Would anyone get rid of these programs/ideals on the mistaken belief that communism is taking over?
  1. Social Equality: Public education is an example of attempting to equalize the minimum education for all people.
  2. Economic Equality: Minimum wage, food stamps, social security, and public housing are just some ways to reduce absolute poverty.
  3. Medical Equality: Socialized healthcare means that everyone receives the same minimum healthcare, even if unemployed and unable to pay for medical needs.
  4. Political Equality: Socialism increases workers rights and is more likely to allow more than only two dominate political parties.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:39 AM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 17,886,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
While some may view a program of universal healthcare as some form of socialism they are absolutely right but governments by their very nature have to incorporate various aspects of socialism into their governance if they are to be administering various programs to its citizens.I believe some may fear socialist policies because they erroneously believe that its a step toward communism.
Heres some socialistic programs the government provides for its people.Would anyone get rid of these programs/ideals on the mistaken belief that communism is taking over?
  1. Social Equality: Public education is an example of attempting to equalize the minimum education for all people.
  2. Economic Equality: Minimum wage, food stamps, social security, and public housing are just some ways to reduce absolute poverty.
  3. Medical Equality: Socialized healthcare means that everyone receives the same minimum healthcare, even if unemployed and unable to pay for medical needs.
  4. Political Equality: Socialism increases workers rights and is more likely to allow more than only two dominate political parties.
It wouldn't be a problem if those programs are run correctly and also not abused. The problem is they are not and many see that and thus know that any additional government run program will cost them.

When I see someone not working by choice and getting over $30,000 a year from various assistance programs such as AFDC, Section 8, Food Stamps, etc., not counting medical, all because they choose to keep popping out babies, 7 at last count, then I do not want another program that is going to encourage this behavior and the lack of over site on these programs does promote this behavior.

All the programs were meant to be a helping hand when people were at a low point but instead they have become a family hand me down to many. A pervasive attitude of entitlement has overcome the masses and that needs to stop.
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:24 AM
 
4,811 posts, read 3,461,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1306 View Post
It wouldn't be a problem if those programs are run correctly and also not abused. The problem is they are not and many see that and thus know that any additional government run program will cost them.

When I see someone not working by choice and getting over $30,000 a year from various assistance programs such as AFDC, Section 8, Food Stamps, etc., not counting medical, all because they choose to keep popping out babies, 7 at last count, then I do not want another program that is going to encourage this behavior and the lack of over site on these programs does promote this behavior.

All the programs were meant to be a helping hand when people were at a low point but instead they have become a family hand me down to many. A pervasive attitude of entitlement has overcome the masses and that needs to stop.
I don't think anyone disagrees that there is abuse, it needs to be administered better. You ever heard of the phrase "throwing the baby out with the bath water" you don't stop people from driving because some speed or drive drunk..
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:29 AM
 
34,238 posts, read 41,236,685 times
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So because an insignificant few scam the system all social programs present and future should be cancelled or not adopted?
As for $30K on welfare,really? most of my working life i never made that kind of money .. The one time i was having a rough time and applied for food stamps i was told i was ineligeable because at minimum wage i was apparently making too much money to qualify..
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:43 AM
 
2,708 posts, read 4,384,363 times
Reputation: 2302
Quote:
Originally Posted by EngGirl View Post
I don't see how it's insurance fault if FL Hospital employees are providing completely incorrect cost of service summary and the final bill is twice (no kidding!) higher. My family experienced this few times already. And by the way, we had to luck to dispute the charge or even lower it since their employees misinformed us... they just mailed bill to the medical collector.
I meant to say problem with "insurance coverage level." I have high premium insurance that covers 100% all these and other services such as MRI. That's the point I was making. Most people pay low premium coverage or that's what their employer put them and they are shocked when the bill comes for such services. So, one need to be really careful about the cost of such services, if they have to share a percentage of that service themselves.
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:48 AM
 
2,708 posts, read 4,384,363 times
Reputation: 2302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1306 View Post
It wouldn't be a problem if those programs are run correctly and also not abused. The problem is they are not and many see that and thus know that any additional government run program will cost them.

When I see someone not working by choice and getting over $30,000 a year from various assistance programs such as AFDC, Section 8, Food Stamps, etc., not counting medical, all because they choose to keep popping out babies, 7 at last count, then I do not want another program that is going to encourage this behavior and the lack of over site on these programs does promote this behavior.

All the programs were meant to be a helping hand when people were at a low point but instead they have become a family hand me down to many. A pervasive attitude of entitlement has overcome the masses and that needs to stop.
Your anecdote is insignificant based on experiences of many developed countries. There will always be people who abuse any system you put in front of them. The idea is to put a system that is less likely to be abused by many people and universal health care IS less susceptible to mass abuse compared to what we have right now. You got now some people (as you mentioned above), insurance companies, AND providers abusing the system. All around is being abused and that's why cost keep sky rocketing.
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:53 AM
 
4,811 posts, read 3,461,321 times
Reputation: 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeInDenudinFL View Post
I meant to say problem with "insurance coverage level." I have high premium insurance that covers 100% all these and other services such as MRI. That's the point I was making. Most people pay low premium coverage or that's what their employer put them and they are shocked when the bill comes for such services. So, one need to be really careful about the cost of such services, if they have to share a percentage of that service themselves.
So you don't think the high cost of health care is one of the problems, the fact is in most of world a simple ultrasound is less than $100, even in the US you can take a 3d ultrasound for recreational purposes for less than $300. You should be able to go to a walk in facility get and ultrasound the images should be sent to your pcp, for another pcp visit fee the doctor should go over the results, done. In reality the PCP doesnt want to touch the ultrasound for liability issues, neither does teh ultrasound tech so a third doctor comes in the picture by the time is said and done you paid 4 people plus overpaid for the actual scan.
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:02 AM
 
2,708 posts, read 4,384,363 times
Reputation: 2302
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUNNDFRNT View Post
So you don't think the high cost of health care is one of the problems, the fact is in most of world a simple ultrasound is less than $100, even in the US you can take a 3d ultrasound for recreational purposes for less than $300. You should be able to go to a walk in facility get and ultrasound the images should be sent to your pcp, for another pcp visit fee the doctor should go over the results, done. In reality the PCP doesnt want to touch the ultrasound for liability issues, neither does teh ultrasound tech so a third doctor comes in the picture by the time is said and done you paid 4 people plus overpaid for the actual scan.
Oh yeah, I know in general health care costs are outrageously high in this country. No denying there. I wasn't commenting on whether this specific service was expensive or not. I have no knowledge of how much it should cost in open market. I was just saying when you share part of a service cost, you need to know how much it cost to not be surprised when the bill comes. Unless of course, your insurance pays all.

ETA: Also, if this charge is way over the top for the specific service compared to market, the OP, IMO, should challenge the bill. I understand that not many people would ask how much a service cost is at the time they provide it. But one can always go and contest the bill after the fact. I would encourange the OP to get an idea of how much this service would cost in another place and contest the bill.
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