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Very true. Boy I don't miss that! I hated being asked that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidtsx
I fully agree with you, but I have seen deer. My wife and I just purchased a home in St Pete and are in the process of relocating down there. I was born and raised in Florida and now live in NOVA. Traffic in Tampa is nothing in comparison to traffic in NOVA. Rush hour never ends in NOVA and you must plan accordingly if you want to go anywhere. Even to the grocery store. So far the only down fall to moving back to Florida is not having a Wegmans. I can't wait to get down there next month just for my stress level. @PhotoProIP I could only dream of having a 2k mortgage in NOVA for a nice single family home. As far as Pretentious people. In NOVA the first question out of 95% of the peoples mouth up here is "What do you do for a living?" Then no matter what you say, they look down on you. Usually the second question is "What college did you go too?". With the same reaction as the first question. Nothing is good enough and they are always better than you. It truly sucks.
I am not comparing Tampa's traffic with 495 in DC, for the record, but we do have quite a few bottlenecks here that can't be ignored. Veterans alone is going to be eye sore for God knows how long...
I cannot believe you don't see deer up there...there are tons down here.
The point is that when you pay 2k for rent, you should have some amenities around. We're talking "rent", not own. In DC the higher housing price is because of the amenities that DC provides. I've shopped in Vienna, VA, Alexandria, and DC itself, and groceries are about the same...I am not sure which items you think are more expensive here.
The ONLY way housing may seem cheaper here is if you make $100k per year, and your mortgage is $250 a month. Or you pay off, and have no mortgage. If you come down here with you northern salary, then you're ahead of the pack, but if you want to compare housing here for those living and working on real FL wages then FL housing is quite expensive, and the problem with that is the amenities in Tampa don't even match those in Miami.....
I'm not saying that Tampa doesn't have traffic or bottle necks. I know it does, but it's not 24/7. That's what I was saying.
I see deer where I live and I've seen them in Florida. I only agreed with the Uptight people and traffic. The two of the three biggest reasons we are leaving.
If we are talking about rent 2k will get you into a new apartment complex 25 miles from town or a maybe townhouse that far out. You will not be renting a SFH in a nice NBHD for that. Those push 3 - 3.5k a month for something equal to what you are posting. As far as amenities, it's an all day affair to do anything up here. No joke. Weekend traffic is worst than weekday traffic. Nobody stays home. Everybody goes shopping. Vienna is nice, but it's not affordable, unless you make 300k plus.
Personally DC can keep the amenities, the weather, elitist attitudes, and the liberals (I realize the last two are one and the same). I will gladly trade that for a nice house and a boat.
Ditto Hokiepoke! Well said. I am going up in a few weeks and I am looking forward to the happy feeling of returning to TB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hokiepoke
Grew up and went to school in NOVA and left there to escape the rat race 15 yrs ago. I still visit there often since I have family and friends there and occasional work travel pretty much in the heart of NOVA in Fairfax County. It was a great place to start a career and enjoy all that the area has to offer but hectic living isn't my thing. I just came back from spending a week there working and played tourist and here's my observation still:
- People there are still very rushed as if they have to be somewhere all the time, there seems to be no down time
- My kids got to experience class warfare early just being there a short time, it was all about me me me and what I can do or what I have that's better than you - I guess they get trained early there now
- Traffic is bad around the clock especially weekends, rush hour starts early like 6:30am-10am and 2:30pm-7pm. The lack of alternate routes to get from A to B unlike the grid street layout here makes the problem worse
- Annual auto property tax sucked, coughing up a few hundred every April where your car tax bill is based on the NADA value, then there's the annual inspection and emission
- Grocery seems about same if you go to Publix here and compare to Giant/Safeway there, I'm guessing you can do better at either place finding the right local discount stores and sales
- I got cut off and got the bird in traffic just doing my laid back Florida driving style during my short time there, we got nothing on NOVA as far as aggressive driver behavior here.
- NOVA houses tend to have damp basements which invites all kind of creepy crawlies there too especially silverfish which looks like spider on steroids. I haven't seen any more bugs inside the house here than anywhere really. Seen a couple palmetto bugs which made it in but those are swiftly dealt with. Outside is another thing, FL is teeming with life and you see lizards darting around, more garden snakes than normal, frogs, snails, big grasshoppers etc. I even got a big turtle come up to my door and all kind of cool looking birds land in the yard (including a peacock dragging its tail across the street one time).
- Housing is definitely less here - good luck getting anything there for 250k that doesn't share two walls with your neighbor and a parking spot out in the street, here I can get a decent SFH with a garage and pool for that
- I picked a bad week to visit when there was a heat wave of 96 degrees and the swamp heavy humidity with no air movement that even makes it hard to breathe. This is my second summer here and I don't recall it getting that bad here and I'm outdoor a lot.
I'm glad to be back where I call home now in Tampa area. Every time I visit there, it reminds me how glad I am that I don't live there anymore. It has good things that I do miss but the negatives outweigh the positives and is not my cup of tea at this point in my life.
Where do you think I live Photo? I am not sure based on you saying you can't believe I don't see deer "up there". I saw tons of deer in NOVA on a daily basis and none around Tampa and I'm glad because I was always afraid of hitting them.
Ditto Hokiepoke! Well said. I am going up in a few weeks and I am looking forward to the happy feeling of returning to TB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hokiepoke
Grew up and went to school in NOVA and left there to escape the rat race 15 yrs ago. I still visit there often since I have family and friends there and occasional work travel pretty much in the heart of NOVA in Fairfax County. It was a great place to start a career and enjoy all that the area has to offer but hectic living isn't my thing. I just came back from spending a week there working and played tourist and here's my observation still:
- People there are still very rushed as if they have to be somewhere all the time, there seems to be no down time
- My kids got to experience class warfare early just being there a short time, it was all about me me me and what I can do or what I have that's better than you - I guess they get trained early there now
- Traffic is bad around the clock especially weekends, rush hour starts early like 6:30am-10am and 2:30pm-7pm. The lack of alternate routes to get from A to B unlike the grid street layout here makes the problem worse
- Annual auto property tax sucked, coughing up a few hundred every April where your car tax bill is based on the NADA value, then there's the annual inspection and emission
- Grocery seems about same if you go to Publix here and compare to Giant/Safeway there, I'm guessing you can do better at either place finding the right local discount stores and sales
- I got cut off and got the bird in traffic just doing my laid back Florida driving style during my short time there, we got nothing on NOVA as far as aggressive driver behavior here.
- NOVA houses tend to have damp basements which invites all kind of creepy crawlies there too especially silverfish which looks like spider on steroids. I haven't seen any more bugs inside the house here than anywhere really. Seen a couple palmetto bugs which made it in but those are swiftly dealt with. Outside is another thing, FL is teeming with life and you see lizards darting around, more garden snakes than normal, frogs, snails, big grasshoppers etc. I even got a big turtle come up to my door and all kind of cool looking birds land in the yard (including a peacock dragging its tail across the street one time).
- Housing is definitely less here - good luck getting anything there for 250k that doesn't share two walls with your neighbor and a parking spot out in the street, here I can get a decent SFH with a garage and pool for that
- I picked a bad week to visit when there was a heat wave of 96 degrees and the swamp heavy humidity with no air movement that even makes it hard to breathe. This is my second summer here and I don't recall it getting that bad here and I'm outdoor a lot.
I'm glad to be back where I call home now in Tampa area. Every time I visit there, it reminds me how glad I am that I don't live there anymore. It has good things that I do miss but the negatives outweigh the positives and is not my cup of tea at this point in my life.
The info above is misleading. I've been down here 16 yrs and don't remember VP's or anyone coming to work in sandals or flip flops (jeans yes, but not flip flops). Corporations, no matter where they are, do not allow that. Also, a lot of people down here care about social status too, i.e where their kids go to school, what they drive and where they work(believe it or not there's friction, jealousy and other situations derived from human nature). If you're single, that's a different ball game. The corp world is just as competitive with A types competing, playing games/politics etc.. (this is the standard everywhere in the US); also don't forget this is an employment at will state. In addition, you're comparing a single metro area(NOVA) calling it upscale with parts of St Pete, which besides downtown, much of the rest is older/working class neighborhoods. As an example, why not compare it with Snell Isle, Tierra Verde, Bell Air/Bell Air Beach, North CLW Beach, Casey Key or many other similar areas in Hillsborough/Pinellas/Sarasota. That would be a fair comparison. As a rule of thumb, everything close to the beaches is upscale with plenty McMansions(from Pasco county down to Venice).
The person will hate it down here if she expects Tampa Bay to fit the profile of the nation's capital (we're blessed to not have as many criminals in local politics down here, as up there)
Btw, just went on Google maps - Arlington VA and could see plenty of houses that resemble what you see inland in St Pete. So not sure what this "everything was upscale" comment is about!
I think the other guy was pretty much right on. I haven't seen execs in flip flops anywhere since before the tech bubble crash a dozen years ago, but it's very relaxed here, and there are very few uber-competitive types compared to DC. The job market here is very small compared to DC; not much good entry level and, higher level, a place people come to trade salary for work life balance. Uber-competitive guys never make that trade, so the waves of annoying Ivy League-types don't come crashing here. Of course, the flip side is also true. If you like a fast pace, people will seem lazy. When I go out to eat with family from the northeast, I need to remind them the waitress is on 'island time.' If you want to hire a contractor, expect to have to call a few of them before you'll find one willing to pick up the phone, let alone take the job. Expect to go through a few lawn guys before you find one that's reliable. Very few people are really hustling here. School quality (all levels, including college) mirrors that. And if you're coming here in a management/hiring position, expect recruiting to be a challenge.
I would caution the OP, however, that "Tampa Bay" is not one cohesive place. Here in St. Pete, we've got a beach vacation laid back thing going on. Literally every restaurant downtown is flip-flop appropriate, etc. So Tierra Verde is upscale, but status issues are about boat envy, half the people in the little "downtown" stripmall will be in bathing suits, and only about a dozen working people live there anyway. Totally relaxed. Tampa, on the other hand, doesn't have a beach vacation vibe at all, and isn't nearly as laid back. If we're going out to dinner there, I'm not wearing flip flops. And if you live in a McMansion golf course community, you'll have to deal with McMansion golf course community types (no matter where you are in the world...).
To another series of posts, I haven't seen any deer in St. Pete proper, where I live. The only place I've seen deer in the bay area are golf courses further away from the cities, and the deer there were very small. It's funny, a bunch of people I know from here will stop and look at deer the way we stop and look at dolphins... Anyway, deer are not a pest here in St. Pete. I'd imagine there are more of them when you get away from the more developed areas. Outside of the metro area, it can get real rural real fast.
As for jobs, I posted enough info:
"You would need around 3,600.47$ in Tampa, FL to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 5,600.00$ in Washington, DC ". If jobs where more abundant in this area, the COL / consumer prices would go up. The more $ you make, the more you have to spend.
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
One more thing. I can never understand why housing is so pricey up there. We're talking about wooden structures, mostly with shingles. It seems people pay too much for materials, that worth a lot less! I wouldn't be too happy paying a mortgage for a $500K-$800K house made of plywood. Btw, I could care less about uber-competitive types. Only advice, they should check their blood pressure from time to time.
1. No deer? you're joking...I have had several cross in front my car at a 4 inch distance. I saw one the other day...and I see many between November and April.
2. Less traffic? maybe, but don't really believe that...we have our share of horrible bottle necks.
3. They have pest control up north too...you'll get bugs when your house becomes humid, they like humidity, so if you keep your house dry, (and clean of course) you won't have this issue.
4. Make that over $1000 in registration fees, car insurance in Florida is through the roof. Why not ask your current company to give you a quote to see what I mean.
5. "less pretentious people"??? LOLOL That's funny...Looks matter a LOT here when it comes to employment. More so than your resume. A lot of shallow people here.
6. What you'd save by not paying state taxes, you'll make up for it in homeowners insurance, CDD's, HOA's etc etc etc.
7. Same grocery bill.
8. Cheaper housing? I doubt it...Maybe if only compare to living on M street. Here too you'll pay $2k for a nice home. The difference is that you'll have a longer drive to anywhere.
Visit.
I had my hair trimmed & colored when I was in Tampa last year, and it was about 30% less than here in Northern VA. Also, I have heard that food is LESS expensive than here in Northern VA.
As for the traffic, NO WAY NO HOW can it be any worse than Metro DC. Not a chance. There are traffic jams on 95 day & night!!! We drove from Lakeland to Clearwater - and the traffic announcers where going on & on about how awful it was. We laughed! A walk in the park coming from Metro DC.
I did find the traffic in Clearwater to be about the same as Fairfax in terms of congestion & volume.
Incorrect on the cheaper housing. We've looked, and still looking online. Housing prices are much much more affordable in Tampa Bay area, hands down.
If you are going to Florida, you are going for MORE than just this nonsense. You are going to move there because you like the warm weather. And of course, sick of shoveling snow in the winter. (yes, we have SNOW in Metro DC!) go with a positive attitude and an open mind, and it will be great.
The public schools here in Pinellas are reported to be pedestrian at best (other than charter/magnet/fundamental/IB programs). I haven't heard good things about public schools in Hillsborough other than whatever HS services South Tampa, and half the people I know in South Tampa send their kids to private school. Perhaps this area trails the state, I don't know. More important to me -- a hiring manager without kids -- is the quality of college/graduate programs in the area, and we are very weak there. The only USN top 50 school in the whole state is U Miami, which isn't local and sends more kids to NYC than this area. And our job market isn't big enough that we can support high-end entry level, which means we're not a "destination" for grads from good not-local schools.
But I do think primary/secondary/college quality are related. To my neighbors and co-workers (upper middle class types), if the kids go to UF or even FSU, that's a great result. In NOVA, the upper middle class target is an Ivy or some other top 30ish school. Considering the difference in admission standards, the pressure on a student's resume -- and required quality of primary/secondary education -- is significantly greater. I don't want to get into whether some particular school is a good target, only to point out that the targets are different. It's a much more laid back approach here. It's the same way when you talk to folks about your/their college experience. Down here, if someone asks where you went to school, it's to understand your college football allegiances. Up there, when folks ask, it's because they want to understand your academic credentials. It's just a different mindset altogether.
Anyway, I view education is part of the larger tradeoff when you move from the northeast pressure cooker to a more "laid back" lifestyle down here. And so the caution I'd give the OP is the same that sportster gave, which is: be prepared for the cultural difference. Lots of my fellow northerners come here hoping to live a laid back lifestyle, but then get frustrated when everyone else is laid back, too. Set your expectations for service right, whether your lawn guy, your waitress, your kid's teacher, or whoever. As for me, I love it here. If/when the day comes, and we have to pay for private school, that's well worth it.
1. No deer? you're joking...I have had several cross in front my car at a 4 inch distance. I saw one the other day...and I see many between November and April. 2. Less traffic? maybe, but don't really believe that...we have our share of horrible bottle necks.
3. They have pest control up north too...you'll get bugs when your house becomes humid, they like humidity, so if you keep your house dry, (and clean of course) you won't have this issue.
4. Make that over $1000 in registration fees, car insurance in Florida is through the roof. Why not ask your current company to give you a quote to see what I mean.
5. "less pretentious people"??? LOLOL That's funny...Looks matter a LOT here when it comes to employment. More so than your resume. A lot of shallow people here.
6. What you'd save by not paying state taxes, you'll make up for it in homeowners insurance, CDD's, HOA's etc etc etc.
7. Same grocery bill.
8. Cheaper housing? I doubt it...Maybe if only compare to living on M street. Here too you'll pay $2k for a nice home. The difference is that you'll have a longer drive to anywhere.
Visit.
These two are incorrect, I can tell you right now without having even visited in 10+ years.
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