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Old 02-14-2014, 06:08 PM
 
25,885 posts, read 39,178,572 times
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My daughter went at the age of 14 to prom due to that being her senior year in HS and due to her young age we were a little worried although we knew the 3 others she went with. They left in a limo arranged by one of the parents as a gift to their daughter and we had told our daughter and her female friend and 2 male friends (all 17-18 year old) that if anything was going on later in the evening to call and we would pick them up.

After Prom and returning to one of the friends house they all went by car to another friends home and when they arrived my daughter and her friends noticed that someone was using some illegal drugs and I got a call if I could pick all of them up and there I went to do what I promised to do and I couldn't have been more proud that they all realized that even being there is making you at the wrong end of the law since the cops don't make a difference when they enter and the chances that all of them would be in trouble would be big.

Btw all 4 graduated with honors and all 4 graduated with double majors in College and got their Masters....smart kids, making smart decisions and I believe that we as parents (also the other kids parents) all thought them values and the right thing to do. Just to make it clear both girls are born in Europe and both guys were born in the USA and one is/was (however you want to say that) black. To me it is all start with the parents. Kids can't raise themselves aside from maybe a lucky few who will always do the right thing...most kids need guidance and not just a friend but a parent and many parents think that they need to be their kids best friend!
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Old 02-14-2014, 06:14 PM
 
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Yeh, that mobile surveillance tower with the blacked-out windows looming like Godzilla over the fair is not exactly unobtrusive, IMO.

OTOH, since they can zoom in tight with those cameras, maybe the po'leece can run a "guess your bra size" game at the fair and defray some of the costs to the taxpayer.
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Old 02-14-2014, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
27,798 posts, read 26,227,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarc View Post
"Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither," Benjamin Franklin
I don't think good ol' Ben knew that people could commit mass murder by flying planes into buildings and detonating bombs in crowded stadiums or fairground venues. I'm not losing a bit of freedom by having these security measures, btw. Besides, you pay to get into the fairgrounds and have the right not to enter - your freedom to decide.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucFan View Post
I don't think good ol' Ben knew that people could commit mass murder by flying planes into buildings and detonating bombs in crowded stadiums or fairground venues. I'm not losing a bit of freedom by having these security measures, btw. Besides, you pay to get into the fairgrounds and have the right not to enter - your freedom to decide.
I think he knew it, and knew it well. He was an inventor and a visionary and famously said to one lady who asked him what kind of government he and his fellow founders had given the people "A Republic, Madam, if you can keep it." But perhaps he never realized how far the government would go in creating the conditions they can now claim to "protect" people from, or how "the people" would become a dumbed-down sheeple and placidly accept all sorts of indignities in the name of safety and security. It has been said that people willingly extend their wrists for the chains.

Yes, it is my freedom to decide not to enter the fair, and since I'm not a criminal who requires surveillance, I won't.
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Sinkholeville
1,496 posts, read 1,432,815 times
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Quote:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1755, from the Pa. Assembly to the Colonial Governor, about procuring funding for the defense of the frontier. It's part of an appropriations bill, it is part of the struggle about extending credit, printing paper money, and taxes. It's not about spying, something Franklin mastered in Europe during the Revolutionary War.

"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin, 1738, in Poor Richard's Almanack.

It's been paraphrased and misquoted many times, mostly in the 20th century by libertarians trying to claim Franklin as one of their own.

Quote:
In fine, we have the most sensible Concern for the poor distressed Inhabitants of the Frontiers. We have taken every Step in our Power, consistent with the just Rights of the Freemen of Pennsylvania, for their Relief, and we have Reason to believe, that in the Midst of their Distresses they themselves do not wish us to go farther. Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Such as were inclined to defend themselves, but unable to purchase Arms and Ammunition, have, as we are informed, been supplied with both, as far as Arms could be procured, out of Monies given by the last Assembly for the King’s Use; and the large Supply of Money offered by this Bill, might enable the Governor to do every Thing else that should be judged necessary for their farther Security, if he shall think fit to accept it.------[November 11, 1755]
Yes, it's about getting the government to supply free guns and ammo!
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:24 AM
Status: "Brexit bound" (set 28 days ago)
 
3,718 posts, read 2,022,478 times
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It's a simple fact that CCTV not only prevents crime but helps detect and solve it too.
If you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear.
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:15 AM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
27,798 posts, read 26,227,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarc View Post

Yes, it is my freedom to decide not to enter the fair, and since I'm not a criminal who requires surveillance, I won't.

Do you also stay away from department stores/grocery stores/gas stations? All of which us surveillance of customers. Must be difficult even leave the house because surveillance by businesses is pretty much omnipresent.
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:38 AM
 
5,556 posts, read 5,073,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscoe Conkling View Post
If you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear.
HAH! I was wondering when someone would chime in with that little canard, as it's always used to justify the surveillance state. Thank you for not disappointing me.

Oh, no, my dear, I beg to differ. It's precisely those who aren't doing anything wrong who have the most to fear and the most to lose. Just ask anyone who has been on the receiving end of a visit from the local constabulary due to mistaken targeting of their residence. Or someone whose identity has been stolen. Or someone who has been unceremoniously fingered by the TSA.

Come to think of it, it's pretty amazing how fast they were able to deploy all that personnel and equipment to the fair. It's like they were ready for it or something. But didn't they say they were totally unprepared for the wilding and unable to respond effectively?
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:41 AM
 
790 posts, read 1,010,238 times
Reputation: 1020
Quote:
Originally Posted by dystopian View Post
How is the majority losing to the minority (and I dont mean racially) I mean those that want a positive environment (majority) and those that dont (minority)?
Its called political correctness run amok, you can be called a cracker all day, but heaven forbid the "n" word sliups and you will lose your job, and everything you have worked for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarc View Post

Sheesh, there IS a mid-ground. Can't the police just take the kids into protective custody overnight? That's what they used to do where I lived up north as a teenager/college student.
This isnt "up north" and we dont care "how they did things up there". There were over 100 kids that were ejected for this mob attack, and we do not need to waste valuable resources on "urban youths" getting kicked out of the fair. Why dont people ever blame the parents??!
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:46 AM
 
5,556 posts, read 5,073,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucFan View Post
Do you also stay away from department stores/grocery stores/gas stations? All of which us surveillance of customers. Must be difficult even leave the house because surveillance by businesses is pretty much omnipresent.
Yes, I do stay away from deparments stores, but it's not because of surveillance. As to grocery stores and gas stations, you've got me there. Add banks and other such institutions to that list as well.

My point here, however, is to get people thinking how we got here in the first place. We didn't have wildings and heavy surveillance of the population when I was younger. Decent people didn't have to worry about having their puss on candid camera everywhere they went. Now everyone is suspect. That's just insane.
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