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Old 07-16-2014, 10:00 AM
 
1,024 posts, read 1,300,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
To sum it up, yes. The question will be was deadly force was justified.

My position, and that of defense, is that it was justified because of 3 aggravated assaults upon a senior citizen. The yelling, the popcorn grab/throw and the cell phone throw. To top that off Oulson raised is arm apparently to strike Reeves directly. Reeves literally beat Oulsen to the punch as Reeves wanting to avoid further bodily injury shot his assailant in the chest, killing him.

It is interesting to know that some people feel that Reeves should have taken a beating instead of rightfully defending himself. I also find it interesting that no one responded to my question "what would you have done if you where in Reeves' shoes?"
Well, I definitely don't think Reeves should have taken a beating. I'm all for self-defense when one's life depends on it or to avoid having some sort of serious bodily harm occur.

Was there a way for him to safety back away or move himself away from the situation? I mean, could Reeves have moved to the right or the left or perhaps the row behind him and made an exit?

 
Old 07-16-2014, 10:05 AM
 
Location: USA's #1 MSA 4 Years Running
8,569 posts, read 7,325,569 times
Reputation: 4887
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridagirl777 View Post
Well, I definitely don't think Reeves should have taken a beating. I'm all for self-defense when one's life depends on it or to avoid having some sort of serious bodily harm occur.

Was there a way for him to safety back away or move himself away from the situation? I mean, could Reeves have moved to the right or the left or perhaps the row behind him and made an exit?
Personally, I would have moved to somewhere else in the movie theater right off the bat. This will be the sticking point for the defense.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 10:24 AM
 
741 posts, read 598,693 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
3 aggravated assaults upon a senior citizen. The yelling, the popcorn grab/throw and the cell phone throw.
Go do research on what 'aggravated assault' is compared to simple assault compared to battery compared to aggravated battery. You've spent two days now embarrassing yourself with cringe-worthy displays of terrible internet lawyering. Its only getting worse.

Anyway, FloridaGirl777, the short of it is: the defense maintains that hollering, throwing popcorn and a cel phone warrants a deadly force response.

12 people will get to judge whether that's a reasonable response or not. So far, indicators suggest that only the furthest fringe shoot-em-up types are on board with that being 'reasonable', which is the central point of statutory contention.

I say this as someone who was 100% pro Zimmerman acquittal.
Reeves is 100% a murderer.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 10:44 AM
 
790 posts, read 850,183 times
Reputation: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridagirl777 View Post
Well, I definitely don't think Reeves should have taken a beating. I'm all for self-defense when one's life depends on it or to avoid having some sort of serious bodily harm occur.

Was there a way for him to safety back away or move himself away from the situation? I mean, could Reeves have moved to the right or the left or perhaps the row behind him and made an exit?
Reeves actually left the theatre (and maybe retrieved a gun) and came back only to continue to yell at the guy for texting. Reeves was the instigator. I will admit he did get assaulted (not the pop corn but the cellphone) and maybe a punch was next, but all the actions leading upto that is Reeves' fault. From what I saw on video none of that warranted the shooting of an unarmed individual and some will argue how did you know the other guy wants armed, but concealed holders (especially cops) are taught to use deadly force AS A LAST RESORT. Its doesnt appear this was a last resort but a first resort after starting the argument to begin with.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 10:44 AM
 
1,024 posts, read 1,300,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriusH8r View Post
Personally, I would have moved to somewhere else in the movie theater right off the bat. This will be the sticking point for the defense.
That would have been what I would have done as well. I wouldn't have complained to the manager right away, either. I would have just waited to see if Oulsen continued to text during the actual movie before I said something to management. If he quit texting once the movie started, then no problem. If he continued, I would have complained to management, moved my seat, and then let the higher-ups handle it. I think most normal folks would have handled it this way.

Unfortunately, it wasn't handled this way, and now someone is dead. I guess the real issue is, what constitutes an attack on someone that warrants deadly force? Was what Reeves went through enough to use deadly force on Oulsen? Is a verbal altercation along with a punch or shove enough? If it is, then it would justify a lot of other hot headed bullies getting shot.

I think this case has some real importance in how future self-defense cases are handled.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 11:09 AM
 
Location: FL
1,400 posts, read 1,070,112 times
Reputation: 1990
In no sane world does popcorn and a cellphone equal death. Even Zimmermans Attorney, Mark O Mara commented on the Reeves case and said you can't always meet force with deadly force. Self defense is also not available to a person who provoked the violence against himself. More importAntly self defense is not availible to a person about to commit a felony. Reeves sat there for 13 seconds and stewed becoming angrier and angrier, had the gun at the ready and commited murder.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 11:15 AM
 
Location: USA's #1 MSA 4 Years Running
8,569 posts, read 7,325,569 times
Reputation: 4887
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridagirl777 View Post
That would have been what I would have done as well. I wouldn't have complained to the manager right away, either. I would have just waited to see if Oulsen continued to text during the actual movie before I said something to management. If he quit texting once the movie started, then no problem. If he continued, I would have complained to management, moved my seat, and then let the higher-ups handle it. I think most normal folks would have handled it this way.

Unfortunately, it wasn't handled this way, and now someone is dead. I guess the real issue is, what constitutes an attack on someone that warrants deadly force? Was what Reeves went through enough to use deadly force on Oulsen? Is a verbal altercation along with a punch or shove enough? If it is, then it would justify a lot of other hot headed bullies getting shot.

I think this case has some real importance in how future self-defense cases are handled.
A rational opinion. Rare in this thread, as people seem hooked on popcorn. As a matter of fact, I think I will pop some now.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 11:18 AM
 
Location: USA's #1 MSA 4 Years Running
8,569 posts, read 7,325,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bannedontherun View Post
Reeves sat there for 13 seconds and stewed becoming angrier and angrier, had the gun at the ready and commited murder.
Speculation.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 11,428,326 times
Reputation: 5981
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridagirl777 View Post
Well, I definitely don't think Reeves should have taken a beating. I'm all for self-defense when one's life depends on it or to avoid having some sort of serious bodily harm occur.

Was there a way for him to safety back away or move himself away from the situation? I mean, could Reeves have moved to the right or the left or perhaps the row behind him and made an exit?
I dont know what other options were available Reeves. I would think that a man with so many years of law enforcement experience would exercise other means at his disposal besides using deadly force.
I am sure that question will be answered in the trial.


Things happened very quickly in this event. Regardless I do not believe that a man with that much experience would invoke deadly force for any minimal reason. The apparent fact that Oulsen raised his arm just before being shot leads me to believe Reeves was using the 3 strikes theory. If the assailant strikes a 3rd time the assailant must be hell bent on bodily harm. We dont know what words Oulsen uttered during his attack on Reeves. What we do know is that Oulsen was the one who escalated the situation time and time again.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 11:33 AM
 
Location: USA's #1 MSA 4 Years Running
8,569 posts, read 7,325,569 times
Reputation: 4887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
I dont know what other options were available Reeves. I would think that a man with so many years of law enforcement experience would exercise other means at his disposal besides using deadly force.
I am sure that question will be answered in the trial.


Things happened very quickly in this event. Regardless I do not believe that a man with that much experience would invoke deadly force for any minimal reason. The apparent fact that Oulsen raised his arm just before being shot leads me to believe Reeves was using the 3 strikes theory. If the assailant strikes a 3rd time the assailant must be hell bent on bodily harm. We dont know what words Oulsen uttered during his attack on Reeves. What we do know is that Oulsen was the one who escalated the situation time and time again.
Yes, the conversation is an unknown at this point.
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