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Old 07-16-2014, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 11,604,861 times
Reputation: 5988

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We willl have to see how this worm turns.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
Not unless it is aggravated assault, which requires either a deadly weapon, or intent to commit a felony.

A cell phone is not legally a deadly weapon, because it is not designed to cause death or great bodily harm. Ditto with popcorn, even if heavily salted.

If it is merely assault upon person 65+, it's upgraded but still a misdemeanor. 784.08(d)

That would mean that it's not a forcible felony, and that might mean that deadly force to defend against it is not justified.

I'm still undecided, so put me on the jury. I'm retired, I have the time.

 
Old 07-16-2014, 03:30 PM
 
Location: USA's #1 MSA 4 Years Running
8,569 posts, read 7,459,787 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridagirl777 View Post
Perhaps. I'm not sure which direction it will go, really. There are so many variables. I'd hate to be on the jury because it really doesn't seem like a cut-and-dry sort of case. Loads of gray areas, in my opinion.

I think there are some great lessons to be learned in all of this, though - an unchecked temper can lead to really, really bad consequences, and it's better to remove oneself from a volatile situation than to throw fuel on the fire.
I think the issue with a plea deal would be his age. Almost any plea deal will end with him near or past the end of his life. I think if he was younger, a plea deal would be more likely. Just a guess though.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 03:33 PM
 
Location: USA's #1 MSA 4 Years Running
8,569 posts, read 7,459,787 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
Not unless it is aggravated assault, which requires either a deadly weapon, or intent to commit a felony.

A cell phone is not legally a deadly weapon, because it is not designed to cause death or great bodily harm. Ditto with popcorn, even if heavily salted.

If it is merely assault upon person 65+, it's upgraded but still a misdemeanor. 784.08(d)

That would mean that it's not a forcible felony, and that might mean that deadly force to defend against it is not justified. So it's pretty important to determine the level of Oulsen's assault upon Reeves.

I'm still undecided, so put me on the jury. I'm retired, I have the time.
No deadly weapon used against Zimmerman, just fists. Yet Zimmerman walked, which I think was correct....even though I do not care for him.

We will have to see ALL the evidence presented to make an unbiased decision. Of course there are plenty of biased opinions right now.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 03:49 PM
Status: "the sun is not yellow, it's chicken" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Bel Air, California
18,537 posts, read 17,979,726 times
Reputation: 27909
I'm all for giving senior citizens their rights, especially their right to be held accountable for their murderous ways. Have fun in prison Curtis, better not tell anyopne you were a cop.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 03:51 PM
 
1,024 posts, read 1,317,223 times
Reputation: 962
Mine's in red.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
Boldly butting in in blue......Originally Posted by floridagirl777

I also found this in a CNN article that shows what happened after the shooting:

Before more authorities arrived, Reeves' wife told her husband "that was no cause to shoot anyone," according to Hamilton, the law enforcement officer who was then off-duty.


I'm not sure whether or not she is trained and competent to make that judgment, especially in the heat of the moment. We do know that her husband was trained to make that judgment, not only because of his Florida CHP but also based upon his decades of experience. His competence to make that judgment may be debatable.

I agree that his competence to make that judgment may be debatable. Perhaps when he was at his peak, he would not have been so quick to shoot.

Reeves responded by pointing his finger at her and saying, according to Hamilton, "You shut your f**king mouth and don't say another word."

That's excellent legal advice, isn't it? I hope I can refrain from making statements without counsel.

Minus the f-word, yes. It's offensive to me when men speak to their wives with that sort of language. Granted, he had just shot and killed a man when he probably shouldn't have, so he wasn't in the right frame of mind.

The off-duty corporal said that at one point, Reeves pushed back his glasses and said out loud, "Holy f**k, what have I done?"

Sounds like a perfectly natural reaction to such a loud and stressful event. It would have been better not to say anything at all.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 03:52 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,388,886 times
Reputation: 1486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
and I await your take on the situation as a whole.
I think this:

There has to be more to the defense than "I was afraid" to make it a lawful killing. If district attorneys let people walk everytime they said they killed someone out of fear, they'd find themselves out of work pretty fast. Being hit with a cellphone and a bag of popcorn isn't enough to make a "reasonable" person fear for their lives. It doesn't even threaten "serious bodily injury" or "permanent disability", to use your definition of aggravated assault.

From what we know, Chad Oulsen committed simple assault, which is a third degree misdemeanor. If you think that is a capital offense, then I sincerely hope you are not armed.

I think this guy is going to see jailtime.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 05:12 PM
 
13,773 posts, read 31,539,656 times
Reputation: 10461
We all have opinions as I am sure most of you know the rest of that since we all have one.

Just because you do not agree is no reason to make disparaging remarks about another member. Also, just because someone does not agree with you do not try to start an argument by making personal comments about that member.

Our opinions on a location or issue are just that, opinions. Highly subjective. Personal preferences. Quirks, even. Leave wiggle room for dialogue, others may not see things the same as you, or been there as long as you, and any one of us can be wrong. Pouncing on someone you disagree with runs contrary to the spirit of this board and its members. We are here to help each other.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 05:46 PM
 
741 posts, read 609,766 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridagirl777 View Post
Perhaps. I'm not sure which direction it will go, really. There are so many variables. I'd hate to be on the jury because it really doesn't seem like a cut-and-dry sort of case. Loads of gray areas, in my opinion.

I think there are some great lessons to be learned in all of this, though - an unchecked temper can lead to really, really bad consequences, and it's better to remove oneself from a volatile situation than to throw fuel on the fire.
Whatever areas are grey are overwhelmed by the very black action of killing someone over a trivial event. Is it reasonable to shoot someone based on what we see on the video (really, ignore the narratives of the 'defense'. We all know what they're going to say.)

There's strong evidence that 'Officer Reeves' was provoking the victim with very hostile words prior to things getting thrown at him (which makes sense) and his pulling out the ultimate 'DO AS I SAY!' trump card and killing the man.

There's the strong possibility that Reeves left to retrieve a firearm. It's a rare day when prosecutors prosecute/indict a cop. It's usually something heinous and they do have all the facts available to them.

As noted, another case would be Nathan Juratovac. He was another ex cop who had an altercation and shot an unarmed man. Case law is rapidly developing that "I WAS IN FEAR FOR MY LIFE BECAUSE MAYBE HE WAS GONNA BEAT ME UP!" isn't adequate to kill someone.

If that person is actually beating you, another story.
How about throwing popcorn and maybe a cel phone? We're about to find out.

In this case, the question is, will 12 people deem his actions reasonable? If you were drawing a jury from the NRA Convention, you wouldn't even get all 12. You've seen the lengths to which someone like Spring Hillian has had to go to even remotely rationalize what happened. Will a jury consider that the 'reasonable' position?

That popcorn and a cel phone is the same thing as a major league pitcher fastball?
That it constitutes a threat to great bodily harm or death? Note, the statute doesn't say "any bodily harm, even a scratch".

As noted. Rare day when cops get charged. This case came for a reason.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 06:27 PM
 
1,024 posts, read 1,317,223 times
Reputation: 962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaba View Post
Whatever areas are grey are overwhelmed by the very black action of killing someone over a trivial event.
I agree. I will be surprised if Reeves gets off without any major punishment.

I will say, however, things may have gone down very differently had Oulson been armed as well. I think the man had just as much of a hot temper as Reeves.

The more I think about it, the more I believe this was not a case of self-defense but one of allowing tempers to spiral out of control. It may not be first degree murder, but it may be second degree or possibly third.
 
Old 07-16-2014, 06:41 PM
 
741 posts, read 609,766 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridagirl777 View Post
I will say, however, things may have gone down very differently had Oulson been armed as well. I think the man had just as much of a hot temper as Reeves.
Very possible.
Idiot With Carry Permit vs. Idiot With Carry Permit has occurred before. Very recent case in Georgia of just that.

Regardless, he didn't have a carry permit. He was unarmed and gunned down.

You're 100% correct that this is in no way a case of first degree murder. Everything under that is fair game.
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