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Old 01-14-2016, 04:20 PM
KPB KPB started this thread
 
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All I can make out in the video is popcorn being thrown and a split second later he got shot. How do you know Oulson was going to do anything further than that? Do you honestly, truly believe Oulson was gonna whoop the old mans azz? And you say I'm grabbing at straws lol.

And in jail, yes they do take your belongings, but they give you a shirt, pants and underwear usually orange in color.

Reeves was issued a green "turtle suit" that mentally I'll people are issued to prevent harming themselves or others.
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Old 01-14-2016, 04:31 PM
 
Location: North of South, South of North
8,706 posts, read 8,817,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUNNDFRNT View Post
http://archive.wtsp.com/assetpool/do...0112131735.pdf


Not so much, whoever said that needs to brush up on reading comprehension. The suit stated that Reeves notified a representative of the movie theater that her husband was the aggressor and the employee failed to take action, the categorization of Oulson was made by Reeves to the representative of the movie theater not his wife.
Saw it on the news last night and then Reeve's attorney responded on the same news. I have not read any documents, as I have no horse in this race. I am just interested in the precedent the outcome may set.
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Old 01-14-2016, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,251,905 times
Reputation: 6010
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPB View Post
All I can make out in the video is popcorn being thrown and a split second later he got shot. How do you know Oulson was going to do anything further than that? Do you honestly, truly believe Oulson was gonna whoop the old mans azz? And you say I'm grabbing at straws lol.

And in jail, yes they do take your belongings, but they give you a shirt, pants and underwear usually orange in color.

Reeves was issued a green "turtle suit" that mentally I'll people are issued to prevent harming themselves or others.
I dont k now what Oulson was going to do but obviously Reeves suspected/expected an attack and Oulson's wife put her hand over her husand which I could only believe was an attempt to get him to turn around and have a seat.

Yes, I do believe Oulson was ready and quite able to do harm to Reeves - Why would anyone think otherwise.


Reeves was giuven a green "suicide smock" which cant be torn ap0art to make a noose or anything. He was obviously quite distraught over the incident. Its not that he was grinning like David Berkowitz (Son of Sam Killer - NYC 1977) or George Metesky, the Mad Bomber (NYC 1940's-50's). "turtle suit" ia a bit extreme of a definition for a smock or vest.

Yes, you are grabbing at whatever
you can conceive in order to block out any possibilites except for the off the wall comments Ive seen so far.

Oulson was no chiorboy.
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Old 01-14-2016, 09:25 PM
KPB KPB started this thread
 
1,434 posts, read 924,585 times
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Sorry but Reeves has a mental problem, they dont issue suicide smock/ turtle suit ,whatever you wanna call it to an inmate because they are "distraught" lol. I'm sure anyone thats being booked into a jail feels "distraught". The ONLY reason they are issued is because the inmate has stated he feels like hurting himself or others.

Reeves wife sure didnt seem to think her husband was being such "violently attacked" like you say he was and she was sitting next to him.

Reeves said "I'll teach you to throw popcorn at me! and tells his wife to "shut the f*** up". He was no choir boy either.

Theater shooting witnesses say popcorn flew and gun went off
By Jon Silman and Lisa Buie, Times Staff Writer
DADE CITY — In the dark of the theater, Alan Hamilton saw the kernels fly. Then, the muzzle flash and a loud bang.
"I'll teach you to throw popcorn at me," an eyewitness recalled the shooter, retired Tampa police Capt. Curtis Reeves, saying.

Hamilton, an off-duty Sumter County sheriff's deputy who was sitting on the same row as Reeves, moved in.

"I head in that direction and I found Mr. Reeves sitting in his chair," Hamilton said during Reeves' bail hearing Wednesday. "I reached down and there was a weapon on his left knee." The weapon, a .380-caliber semiautomatic pistol, Hamilton said, was still warm.

It was Jan. 13, and Hamilton cleared the gun and told Reeves, 71, to stay put. Reeves, he said, pushed his glasses back on his head and said, "I can't believe what I've done."

The man he shot, Chad Oulson, 43, said, "I can't believe this." He lay dying in the aisle of the theater, according to testimony. The movie, Lone Survivor, never started. A nurse named Derek Friedhoff took off his shirt and pressed it against Oulson's entry wound. He started chest compressions and asked for a light to shine in Oulson's pupils. Oulson didn't respond.

In the following moments, Hamilton said, Reeves' wife, Vivian, asked her husband why he had to fire, saying "that was no cause to shoot anyone."

Reeves leaned back and stuck his finger at his wife and said "you shut your f------ mouth and don't say another word," Hamilton testified.

Those words drew gasps in the courtroom Wednesday.

The dramatic testimony provided the first detailed account of what happened inside the Cobb Grove 16 theater. The shooting, which officials said occurred because Reeves was upset that Oulson was texting in the theater, has drawn nationwide attention.

Attorneys for Reeves, who faces charges of second-degree murder and aggravated battery with a firearm, argued that he should be released on bail prior to trial.

Prosecutors argued that Reeves should remain behind bars.

After eight hours of testimony, Circuit Judge Pat Siracusa recessed the hearing. It will continue Friday. Testimony will include the airing of a surveillance video from the theater.

On Wednesday, dozens of Reeves' friends and family members were in the courtroom. They huddled in prayer in the lobby before it started.

Much of the testimony centered on the argument between Oulson and Reeves. Hamilton said Oulson turned around and cursed at Reeves and said, "I'm trying to text my f------ daughter if you don't mind."

There was only a 3- to 5-second pause between the popcorn and the gunfire, Hamilton said.

Reeves' attorneys called witnesses who worked with Reeves at the Tampa Police Department and at Busch Gardens, where he directed security after retirement. They also called his daughter, Jennifer Shaw, to talk about his character.

Tears ran down Reeves' face as Shaw described him as a strict but compassionate father. She said he spanked his kids but never in anger.

She said her dad often took her to the movies, and she never saw him make a scene.

When Shaw's daughter was born, Reeves took care of her when Shaw returned to work. When her husband told her he wanted a divorce, "the first person I called was my dad," said Shaw, who choked back tears. Shaw said her father offered to help, and she moved in with her parents.

Shaw said her dad also cared for his 94-year-old mother as well as his wife, who suffers from a host of health problems.

Reeves also was dealing with his own health problems, which included bursitis. He also had "floaters" that sometimes obscured his vision.

The registered nurse, Derek Friedhoff, who sat about 5 to 6 feet from Chad Oulson in the theater, testified that he heard bickering during the previews. As the conflict escalated, he said he saw Oulson's silhouette standing. He heard something being thrown and he heard Reeves say, "something along the lines of 'I'll teach you or I'll show you to throw popcorn at me' followed by a gunshot."

At first, Friedhoff said he thought it was a warning shot because Oulson continued to stand for a moment. When he collapsed, he rushed over.

As he detailed Oulson's bleeding on the theater floor, Nicole Oulson, the dead man's wife, wiped away tears as she sat in the front row. She was with her husband that day and was injured when the bullet struck her finger.

Friedhoff said the theater was fairly calm, with the only reactions coming from those directly affected.

"It wasn't mass hysteria," he said.

Friedhoff worked on Oulson until paramedics arrived.

"I just did something I was trained to do and take care of," he said.

The testimony Friday will include more witnesses, but the highlight could be the surveillance tape.

Reeves' attorneys had asked Siracusa to not play the tape in open court, but the judge refused.

Siracusa said "democracy is fostered" when proceedings are open. Closing court, he said, "only fuels speculation about what is on it."

However, the judge did agree to seal all evidence in court files for 30 days so that defense attorneys can review it. Escobar had asked for a 60-day delay, saying immediate release would keep his client from getting a fair trial.

"There has to be a procedure to do this in a responsible way," Escobar said. "To just get it out today in bulk form is way too dangerous."

Siracusa's granting of the delay came over the objections of attorneys for media organizations, who argued that the availability of information would mean less public speculation, not more. They also said that even in higher profile cases, such as Casey Anthony, there was no blanket sealing of files and that an impartial jury could still be found.

"Those types of arguments in a county as large as Pasco County is extremely unlikely," said Anne H. Arsenault, an attorney for the Tampa Bay Times. "Just because a case has attracted media attention doesn't mean you can't find an impartial jury."
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,251,905 times
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Oy. Thanks for the quotes from the past.

How come Reeves wasnt wearing the suicide vest ever again after that one court appearance?

Have you ever fired a .380 handgun? Better question. Have you ever seen a .380 except on TV?

As the owner of a .380 gun they do not get "warm" after 1 shot.

What Reeves said to his wife is irrelevant.

Reeves is a well seasoned law enforcement officer. I wouldnt expect someone with that background to be gruff and rough around the edges.

One statemenrt says popcorn flew and gun went off and another statement says there was 3-5 seconds between Oulson throwing Reeves popcorn at him (after committing a felony called sudden snatching"

Ive never shot anyone and I hope I never need to do so, but I too most likely would feel badly after responding to a physical attack upon my person.

The theater was dark yet someone was able to see "kernels fly"

A journanlist says Oulson was shot because he was texting. Wrong. Oulson was shot because he physically attacked a man, albeit the wrong man.

So you have one man saying he could not believe what he did and another saying he couldnt believe he was shot even though he was the one who stood, turned, yelled, threw a phone at someone and snactched property from the other man and perhaps began to advance on the other man in that 3-5 second time frame after throwing the popcorn. Oulson was obviously enraged and no one can guess what an enraged person do.

Reeves was well trained in self defense and like any combat trained person reacted quickly to the threat before him and neutralized the enemy.

The nusre, according to the quote "heard something being thrown". I just crumpled 8 sheets of paper into balls and tossed nthem at my friend sitting 3 feet from me. I asked him if he "heard" anything. He said he heard my chair squeak as I turned towardsn him and nothing else.

No journalist mentions the time frame between the time Oulson rose from his seat and began the
verbal attack on Reeves. There was a large gap of time betwwen when Oulson (being the tough guy) said to Reeves "I'm trying to text my f------ daughter if you don't mind."

There was quite a bit of time between Oulson's statement and the shot being fired as Reeves had gone to seek management after that, returned to his seat and then Oulson began his attack.



Why I continue to repond to the nonsense in this matter - I dont know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KPB View Post
Sorry but Reeves has a mental problem, they dont issue suicide smock/ turtle suit ,whatever you wanna call it to an inmate because they are "distraught" lol. I'm sure anyone thats being booked into a jail feels "distraught". The ONLY reason they are issued is because the inmate has stated he feels like hurting himself or others.

Reeves wife sure didnt seem to think her husband was being such "violently attacked" like you say he was and she was sitting next to him.

Reeves said "I'll teach you to throw popcorn at me! and tells his wife to "shut the f*** up". He was no choir boy either.

Theater shooting witnesses say popcorn flew and gun went off
By Jon Silman and Lisa Buie, Times Staff Writer
DADE CITY In the dark of the theater, Alan Hamilton saw the kernels fly. Then, the muzzle flash and a loud bang.
"I'll teach you to throw popcorn at me," an eyewitness recalled the shooter, retired Tampa police Capt. Curtis Reeves, saying.

Hamilton, an off-duty Sumter County sheriff's deputy who was sitting on the same row as Reeves, moved in.

"I head in that direction and I found Mr. Reeves sitting in his chair," Hamilton said during Reeves' bail hearing Wednesday. "I reached down and there was a weapon on his left knee." The weapon, a .380-caliber semiautomatic pistol, Hamilton said, was still warm.

It was Jan. 13, and Hamilton cleared the gun and told Reeves, 71, to stay put. Reeves, he said, pushed his glasses back on his head and said, "I can't believe what I've done."

The man he shot, Chad Oulson, 43, said, "I can't believe this." He lay dying in the aisle of the theater, according to testimony. The movie, Lone Survivor, never started. A nurse named Derek Friedhoff took off his shirt and pressed it against Oulson's entry wound. He started chest compressions and asked for a light to shine in Oulson's pupils. Oulson didn't respond.

In the following moments, Hamilton said, Reeves' wife, Vivian, asked her husband why he had to fire, saying "that was no cause to shoot anyone."

Reeves leaned back and stuck his finger at his wife and said "you shut your f------ mouth and don't say another word," Hamilton testified.

Those words drew gasps in the courtroom Wednesday.

The dramatic testimony provided the first detailed account of what happened inside the Cobb Grove 16 theater. The shooting, which officials said occurred because Reeves was upset that Oulson was texting in the theater, has drawn nationwide attention.

Attorneys for Reeves, who faces charges of second-degree murder and aggravated battery with a firearm, argued that he should be released on bail prior to trial.

Prosecutors argued that Reeves should remain behind bars.

After eight hours of testimony, Circuit Judge Pat Siracusa recessed the hearing. It will continue Friday. Testimony will include the airing of a surveillance video from the theater.

On Wednesday, dozens of Reeves' friends and family members were in the courtroom. They huddled in prayer in the lobby before it started.

Much of the testimony centered on the argument between Oulson and Reeves. Hamilton said Oulson turned around and cursed at Reeves and said, "I'm trying to text my f------ daughter if you don't mind."

There was only a 3- to 5-second pause between the popcorn and the gunfire, Hamilton said.

Reeves' attorneys called witnesses who worked with Reeves at the Tampa Police Department and at Busch Gardens, where he directed security after retirement. They also called his daughter, Jennifer Shaw, to talk about his character.

Tears ran down Reeves' face as Shaw described him as a strict but compassionate father. She said he spanked his kids but never in anger.

She said her dad often took her to the movies, and she never saw him make a scene.

When Shaw's daughter was born, Reeves took care of her when Shaw returned to work. When her husband told her he wanted a divorce, "the first person I called was my dad," said Shaw, who choked back tears. Shaw said her father offered to help, and she moved in with her parents.

Shaw said her dad also cared for his 94-year-old mother as well as his wife, who suffers from a host of health problems.

Reeves also was dealing with his own health problems, which included bursitis. He also had "floaters" that sometimes obscured his vision.

The registered nurse, Derek Friedhoff, who sat about 5 to 6 feet from Chad Oulson in the theater, testified that he heard bickering during the previews. As the conflict escalated, he said he saw Oulson's silhouette standing. He heard something being thrown and he heard Reeves say, "something along the lines of 'I'll teach you or I'll show you to throw popcorn at me' followed by a gunshot."

At first, Friedhoff said he thought it was a warning shot because Oulson continued to stand for a moment. When he collapsed, he rushed over.

As he detailed Oulson's bleeding on the theater floor, Nicole Oulson, the dead man's wife, wiped away tears as she sat in the front row. She was with her husband that day and was injured when the bullet struck her finger.

Friedhoff said the theater was fairly calm, with the only reactions coming from those directly affected.

"It wasn't mass hysteria," he said.

Friedhoff worked on Oulson until paramedics arrived.

"I just did something I was trained to do and take care of," he said.

The testimony Friday will include more witnesses, but the highlight could be the surveillance tape.

Reeves' attorneys had asked Siracusa to not play the tape in open court, but the judge refused.

Siracusa said "democracy is fostered" when proceedings are open. Closing court, he said, "only fuels speculation about what is on it."

However, the judge did agree to seal all evidence in court files for 30 days so that defense attorneys can review it. Escobar had asked for a 60-day delay, saying immediate release would keep his client from getting a fair trial.

"There has to be a procedure to do this in a responsible way," Escobar said. "To just get it out today in bulk form is way too dangerous."

Siracusa's granting of the delay came over the objections of attorneys for media organizations, who argued that the availability of information would mean less public speculation, not more. They also said that even in higher profile cases, such as Casey Anthony, there was no blanket sealing of files and that an impartial jury could still be found.

"Those types of arguments in a county as large as Pasco County is extremely unlikely," said Anne H. Arsenault, an attorney for the Tampa Bay Times. "Just because a case has attracted media attention doesn't mean you can't find an impartial jury."
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Old 01-15-2016, 07:30 AM
 
1,514 posts, read 999,954 times
Reputation: 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
The theater was dark yet someone was able to see "kernels fly"
Lets hope the defense attorney is not hinging his arguments on these points:

- A "dark" theater does not mean "total absence of light". Rather, there can be a little, or relatively large amount of ambient light depending on many factors. Thus, it is entirely possible that the person saw "kernels fly"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
The nusre, according to the quote "heard something being thrown".
- It might depend on what is being thrown. A cell phone might make more noise than paper. Nurses, as a group, are observant and articulate. My guess is that the defense attorney takes that into consideration and does not aggresively challenge her claim that she heard a cell phone bing tossed, or heard a tub of popcorn being thrown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
Reeves was well trained in self defense and like any combat trained person reacted quickly to the threat before him and neutralized the enemy.
Presents the complete opposite image of what the defense needs. Basically the defense needs to illustrate the opposite: Reeves was not trained for "combat". He did not enter the theatre on a "combat mission" (at least I hope he didn't) and was not looking for opportunities to engage enemies or even "enemies". Only gang bangers do these things in theatres.

At the end of the day....

Reeves and Oulson were both short tempered and placed alot of emphasis on respect / disrespect. This led to rapidly escalating series of events that probably surprised both men (though Oulson is no longer here).

Even in a more defense favorable environment, the shooting was questionable. The fact that the shooting occurred in a middle class theatre is going to complicate things for the defense. Jurors are not robots. Most dont wan't questionable pistol play, "combat" mind sets, Mexican stand offs, duels etc. in places where they take their children- and I bet alot of the jurors go to places like that theatre.

In short, Reeves is going to get convicted of something. The fact that he initiated (but did not escalate) the respect / disrespect confrontation does not help. If he is lucky, it will be a lesser charge.

Last edited by Cryptic; 01-15-2016 at 08:02 AM..
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Old 01-15-2016, 08:39 AM
KPB KPB started this thread
 
1,434 posts, read 924,585 times
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It must be sad to know that your own wife (Reeve's) thinks your a wrong p.o.s.

Even if they give Reeve's a reduced charge of voluntary manslaughter he will still spend his last days in prison eating slop. He will be housed in protective custody, in a prison with other older inmates in protective custody like child molesters/pedophiles, etc. He will most likely be issued a fake name to protect him from inmates he possibly arrested when he was in law enforcement.

And after he pays Escobar his family will most likely be broke.

All because he didn't like it that somebody didn't obey him in a theatre he and his wife went to every Wed. that he felt he owned.
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Old 01-15-2016, 08:50 AM
 
1,514 posts, read 999,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPB View Post
All because he didn't like it that somebody didn't obey him in a theatre he and his wife went to every Wed. that he felt he owned.
Though I dont think that it was all because of that (Oulson chose to escalate things after he ignored Reeve's orders), I think you are right- Reeves clearly expects to be obeyed and respected.

Disobey or disrepect Reeves, espescially in front of his "chick", and things can escalate very quickly. Though I dont think Reeves was predisposed to automatically shoot everyone who " 'dissed him" in anyway, he did not need much of a reason to use the weapon. Oulson gave him a "reason".

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPB View Post
And after he pays Escobar his family will most likely be broke.
Unless Escobar is giving him a discount to build his name recognition as a defense attorney? Then again, even Escobar's discounted rate is going to be steep. Likewise, the high end mercenary experts that the defense is bringing need to be paid seperately.

All the more reason to just have changed seats. But.... guys like Reeves and Oulson dont think along those lines.

Last edited by Cryptic; 01-15-2016 at 09:06 AM..
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Old 01-15-2016, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,251,905 times
Reputation: 6010
OK, some light yet someone said they saw a "silhouette" while another saw"kernels fly".
Got to love eyewitnesses.


I think it was a bag of popcorn, not a tub.

I am going to guess you have never had any situational or combat training. That training never leaqves you. I got mine 40 years ago and am still able to quickly evaluate a situation and determine the correct response in a heart beat. It saved my life once.

Nobody in their right mind walks around on a combat mission but you are lackadaisical you are an easy mark. A man who set up and trained a SWAT force is trained to react and he did.

No matter how you slice the pie, Oulson was fully responsible for turning a minor event into criminal action and was prevented from further harming his victim.

Reeves did nothing wrong from the onset however Oulson is the one who started off the entire event, comitted crimes and, at least in Reeves mind, was about to continue his criminal actions.

I dont know what you would do if an angry person attacked you, but that is neither here or there as Reeves was protecting his well being and did so with the law on his side. I would hope that any person would do whatever was necessary to protect themselves from harm.

I ask you this. Let's suppose Reeves was not armed and Oulson advanced upon Reeves and in the struggle Reeves suffered a heart attack and died?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
Lets hope the defense attorney is not hinging his arguments on these points:

- A "dark" theater does not mean "total absence of light". Rather, there can be a little, or relatively large amount of ambient light depending on many factors. Thus, it is entirely possible that the person saw "kernels fly"


- It might depend on what is being thrown. A cell phone might make more noise than paper. Nurses, as a group, are observant and articulate. My guess is that the defense attorney takes that into consideration and does not aggresively challenge her claim that she heard a cell phone bing tossed, or heard a tub of popcorn being thrown.


Presents the complete opposite image of what the defense needs. Basically the defense needs to illustrate the opposite: Reeves was not trained for "combat". He did not enter the theatre on a "combat mission" (at least I hope he didn't) and was not looking for opportunities to engage enemies or even "enemies". Only gang bangers do these things in theatres.

At the end of the day....

Reeves and Oulson were both short tempered and placed alot of emphasis on respect / disrespect. This led to rapidly escalating series of events that probably surprised both men (though Oulson is no longer here).

Even in a more defense favorable environment, the shooting was questionable. The fact that the shooting occurred in a middle class theatre is going to complicate things for the defense. Jurors are not robots. Most dont wan't questionable pistol play, "combat" mind sets, Mexican stand offs, duels etc. in places where they take their children- and I bet alot of the jurors go to places like that theatre.

In short, Reeves is going to get convicted of something. The fact that he initiated (but did not escalate) the respect / disrespect confrontation does not help. If he is lucky, it will be a lesser charge.
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:24 AM
 
1,514 posts, read 999,954 times
Reputation: 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
OK, some light yet someone said they saw a "silhouette" while another saw"kernels fly".
Got to love eyewitnesses.
I doubt the defense attorney is going to spend alot of time pointing out the purported differences between "silouette" and "kernals flying"- espescially when both witnesses could easily be telling the truth as they might have seen it from different angles in varying amounts of light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
I am going to guess you have never had any situational or combat training.
I once worked in law enforcement. I also have combat training- though it was limited and was a long time ago (National Guard).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
Nobody in their right mind walks around on a combat mission but you are lackadaisical you are an easy mark. A man who set up and trained a SWAT force is trained to react and he did.
I dont think the shooting has alot to do with reeve's Swat training. If anything, Swat officers would be less likely to react the way Reeves did. My guess is that his Swat experience was an orientation class. I would also not be surprised if Reeves main role with the police was paper work adminstrative, not street enforcement.

Reeves stated why he shot Oulson for throwing popcorn (disprespecting him in front of his woman). Reeves then ordered his wife to "shut the **** up". I doubt that attitude was only due to stress. Rather, it is a part of who Reeves is.

This is simply a respect / disrepect shooting. These shootings happen in Chicago and LA daily. In this case, it involved two white guys who also valued being "repected". Oulson saw Reeve's repeated orders to be disprespectful- espescially when Reeves was giving him orders and Oulson's chick was present. In fact, there is a chance that neither Oulson nor Reeves would have behaved like they did had their respective "chicks" not been present.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
I ask you this. Let's suppose Reeves was not armed and Oulson advanced upon Reeves and in the struggle Reeves suffered a heart attack and died?
No struggle occurred in this case. If a struggle had occured and Reeves died, Oulson would be guilty of a criminal offense. What degree of offense could vary on the totality of the circumstances.

Last edited by Cryptic; 01-15-2016 at 10:38 AM..
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