Movie theatre shooting SYG trial (Tampa, Spring Hill: renting, store, vehicle)

[lvmensch]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

You dont need to have suffered injury but only reasonably believes that using or threatening to use deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm.

Let's assume..... You are involved in a minor auto accident. You and the other driver get out of your cars to see the damage and exchange info. Other driver begins yelling at you. Throws their car keys at you and them reaches out and grabs your drivers license and insurance card out of your hand and moves toward you. Are you in fear of bodily harm or injury at that point?

What do YOU do?

The standard is what a prudent and reasonable person would do. The popcorn followed the phone so the situation was deescalating if anything. And it is really hard to get great bodily lharm from a popcorn attack.

What I would do in such an attack would be grab the assailant and fall hopefully getting him underneath. 270 lbs is generally not handleable by anybody but a very big man and, while am ancient, I retain full upper body strength and am going to be very difficult on the ground. But no I don't scare very easily. Got my butt whiped before and don't think it would be any more terrifying than the other times. I am well older than Reeves but stil don't see the big threat.

[miami_winter_breeze]

Originally Posted by The Chap

From what I understand, SYG was drafted in order to clarify those home invasion type situations

You would understand wrong then.

Home invasion scenarios are protected under "Castle Doctrine" which Florida also has. SYG is meant to protect self-defense in cases removed from ones home.

And I don't know what uncivil world you live in - but telling someone to not use their phone in a movie theatre is not grounds for a fight. And if you want to "rough someone up" be prepared that person will kill you.

[miami_winter_breeze]

Originally Posted by lvmensch

The standard is what a prudent and reasonable person would do. The popcorn followed the phone so the situation was deescalating if anything. And it is really hard to get great bodily lharm from a popcorn attack.

Yes, popcorn can't really hurt you. But that's not what SYG is about - it's about preventing hurt. Obviously if Reeves allows Oulson to punch him it's too late.

I personally think any reasonable person would be afraid that Oulson would hurt them in such a confrontation. Especially when Oulson reached for his popcorn, invading his space, at this point many reasonable people would brace themselves for a punch.

Quite frankly it's not Reeve's job to predict Oulson, or to be so cautious. He has a right to defend himself, and he did.

[Spring Hillian]

Originally Posted by KPB

I bet if Reeve's could do it over again he'd take the knock out vs. being charged w/ murder and spending most likely the majority of his family's life savings trying to beat it.

A punch could have caused a fall causing head injury, paralysis or death. When you are under attack with your back to the wall the only thought one has is self preservation. The flee or fight natural instinct kicks in. He could not easily flee, he knew that, so there was only two choices; take a potentially life threatening attack or neutralize the attacker.


Nobody can say anything unless they have experienced the situation.

[lvmensch]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

Should have or not both defendants were in their rights to take the actions they took.

Obviously the texting, or something about it had an impact on Reeves.

Zimmerman was involved in neighborhood watch group and Martin attracted his attention.

Neither Oulson or Martin had any reason to physically attack anyone.


"High handed tactics"? When did talking to someone become "High handed tactics"?

There is a huge difference between talking to someone and physically attacking someone.

Actually Martin had every reason to go after Zimmerman who was effectively stalking him. And if Martin had gotten control of the pistol and killed Zimmerman he would have walked as well. Not the way Zimmerman did because a black teenager is always going to be arrested...but in the end he would have had a better case than Zimmerman.

Note the law does have some interesting side effects. If two known to be armed enemies approach each other and start shooting as both are reasonably in fear of being killed by the other it is all good SYG. And if they kill an innocent bystander it is still SYG. It can't be pre-arranged though as that would violate dueling statutes.

[lvmensch]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

A punch could have caused a fall causing head injury, paralysis or death. When you are under attack with your back to the wall the only thought one has is self preservation. The flee or fight natural instinct kicks in. He could not easily flee, he knew that, so there was only two choices; take a potentially life threatening attack or neutralize the attacker.


Nobody can say anything unless they have experienced the situation.

Come on. How in the world is he going to fall sitting in a seat? He certainly knows how to cover. Even at my age I could do that. Unless the other guy has a weapon he is going to have a very hard time doing any real damage.

[KPB]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

A punch could have caused a fall causing head injury, paralysis or death. When you are under attack with your back to the wall the only thought one has is self preservation. The flee or fight natural instinct kicks in. He could not easily flee, he knew that, so there was only two choices; take a potentially life threatening attack or neutralize the attacker.


Nobody can say anything unless they have experienced the situation.

Why was he charged w/ murder then ?

According to witness statement's Reeve's said "I'll teach you to throw popcorn at me" then he shot Oulson. So according to his own statement do you think he was worried about his "self preservation" lol, or do you think he might of been just trying to show Oulson who the boss was ?
His OWN wife told him after the shooting that "it was no reason to shoot someone". I wonder why she didn't feel her husband wasn't "under such an attack" that he had to tell him that unless maybe because she knows he was wrong.

He had his hand in his pocket on his gun waiting for Oulson to make the first move so he can fire asap (instead of just finding another seat).. He must of felt the phone and popcorn was enough reason so he did.
Let's see if the judge thinks so.

[NY-TAMPA]

At 1:30 of the video when Reeves leans over towards Oulsen, what does he specifically say, do, or threaten towards Oulsen to cause him to turn around and throw the popcorn at him?? Several people on this thread act as though they were physically sitting beside them describing with absolute certainty as to what happened during that Monday afternoon matinee so if you know specifically please respond... Thanks so much

[tinytrump]

The case will be made all depending on what is admissible in court. I said this before -truth is subjective in a court of law. Example- just happens the very witness who really saw and heard all was sitting 2 seats over -but alas he just got out of prison for his 3 time auto theft and now facing another charge...a real piece of work with a long rap sheet--- But he saw it! Or the officer's records of deescalating similar incidents 1000x during his career not allowed. His Meds? Civil cases have become more relevant because there is so much more evidence introduced with out prejudice. All I say is because of his 30 yrs he was an expert and knew how to handle it. If he no longer could should have given up his conceal . Let the courts decide.

[The Villages Guy]

I just came to me. I wonder if it will hurt his defense that he had removed himself from the situation, when he went to complain, but then put himself back in the situation by returning to the same seat?

In some states, you are supposed to try to remove yourself from dangerous situations before defending yourself. While that may not be the case here, I wonder if the decision to return to the same spot will look bad for his defense.