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Old 01-25-2016, 11:45 AM
 
Location: on the edge of Sanity
14,269 posts, read 15,850,755 times
Reputation: 7898

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Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Pinellas_Guy View Post
I just came to me. I wonder if it will hurt his defense that he had removed himself from the situation, when he went to complain, but then put himself back in the situation by returning to the same seat?

In some states, you are supposed to try to remove yourself from dangerous situations before defending yourself. While that may not be the case here, I wonder if the decision to return to the same spot will look bad for his defense.
I agree. Also, did he have his weapon when he first entered the theater or walk to his car to get it when he left to "find a manager." (his story)
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Old 01-25-2016, 01:42 PM
 
1,831 posts, read 2,123,565 times
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The take home message for everyone is do not assault anyone in the dark, even if it is just ice or water, because I would not normally shoot you if I knew it was ice or water but in the dark I cannot determine what you are assaulting me with or your intentions clearly, thus based on the previous seconds leading up to the assault I would likely assume the worse. Be nice out there.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,203,256 times
Reputation: 6009
You hold on tight to your opinion and I will hold onto mine. Reevees is a matter of self defense against a felon as Oulson committed at least 2 of them.

I said I would not argue this matter but reading the non-sense some are purporting here makes it necessary.

You cant commit a felony (assault, sudden snatching, et al) and claim SYG however the person being attacked can. Read the definition of sudden snatching under FL law. It does not make any difference whether it was a gold chain or a bag of popcorn. Read the definition of what constitutes an assault. Read what classification those crimes are under. Read about self defense under FL law.

Zimmerman broke no laws. Martin committed assault and battery.



Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Zimmerman was stalking Martin after having been specifically told not to do so. The exact nature of the physical confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman will never be known. But it is very likely that Martin has an excellent SYG case there also. And once the battle is joined Martin has a perfect case of SYG if he could gain control of the pistol and kill Zimmerman. It is reasonably clear in the SYG statute and cases that the right to SYG can swing back and forth between the players. And SYG standing is a judicial matter not a jury trial. One makes a motion for immunity and the Judge decides whether or not to grant it based upon a preponderance of the evidence. . SYG was not invoked in the Martin matter.

NYC does not have an SYG statute. The are a duty to retreat state.

A good reference on all this is the ABA report which basically recommends doing away with SYG

http://www.americanbar.org/content/d...eport_Book.pdf

I would think there is zero probability that any action by Oulson rose to the level of a felony. That is just lawyer dreaming by his defense. Snatching popcorn is simply absurd as a felony.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,203,256 times
Reputation: 6009
You saw no threat of harm, Reeves did and acted accordingly and well within the law.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
The standard is what a prudent and reasonable person would do. The popcorn followed the phone so the situation was deescalating if anything. And it is really hard to get great bodily lharm from a popcorn attack.

What I would do in such an attack would be grab the assailant and fall hopefully getting him underneath. 270 lbs is generally not handleable by anybody but a very big man and, while am ancient, I retain full upper body strength and am going to be very difficult on the ground. But no I don't scare very easily. Got my butt whiped before and don't think it would be any more terrifying than the other times. I am well older than Reeves but stil don't see the big threat.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,203,256 times
Reputation: 6009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortpes View Post
The take home message for everyone is do not assault anyone in the dark, even if it is just ice or water, because I would not normally shoot you if I knew it was ice or water but in the dark I cannot determine what you are assaulting me with or your intentions clearly, thus based on the previous seconds leading up to the assault I would likely assume the worse. Be nice out there.
The message to take home is keep your hands to yourself and dont assault anyone. I think most of us learned that by age 3.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,203,256 times
Reputation: 6009
Quote:
Originally Posted by justNancy View Post
I agree. Also, did he have his weapon when he first entered the theater or walk to his car to get it when he left to "find a manager." (his story)
There is no video of Reeves leaving the theater but is there showing him inside.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:23 PM
 
Location: on the edge of Sanity
14,269 posts, read 15,850,755 times
Reputation: 7898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
There is no video of Reeves leaving the theater but is there showing him inside.
Are you related to this man?

Only teasing. I probably wrote just as many posts when Trayvon Martin was shot. However, I wish people wouldn't keep comparing the 2 incidents, although in both cases the shooter could have made other choices. Zimmerman could have waited for the police and Reeves could have changed his seat. However, Zimmerman was being beaten and I have no doubt was in fear for his life. OTOH, Martin was probably fighting for his own life because a lunatic with a gun was following him in the dark. I cannot possibly accept that Reeves was in fear of his life because another man threw popcorn. Maybe instead of SYG they should use an insanity defense!

I'll be 65 soon, which officially makes me a senior citizen I'm also 105 lbs and Reeves could squash me like a bug judging from [URL="http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/retired-florida-cop-will-use-stand-your-ground-defense-after-gunning-down-moviegoer-who-threw-popcorn-at-him/"]this picture.[/URL] I have no empathy for the man and I really resent the posts that claim he's old and helpless. Did his attorney borrow a service dog for the trial?
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:50 PM
 
182 posts, read 116,519 times
Reputation: 260
I agree with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by justNancy View Post
You keep posting as if Reeves was in his own home. People are supposed to avoid confrontation in public places when possible, not escalate it.

If someone cuts you off on the highway, you don't chase after that person and, if he flips the bird at you, shoot him because you feel threatened. You don't return to what you perceive as a threatening situation unless you're looking for trouble.
and this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Zimmerman was stalking Martin after having been specifically told not to do so.

I would think there is zero probability that any action by Oulson rose to the level of a felony. That is just lawyer dreaming by his defense. Snatching popcorn is simply absurd as a felony.
Martin and Oulson were doing nothing wrong before being accosted by nosy, busybody, hotheaded individuals whom acted unreasonably. And when they stood up to the bullies, they were shot dead. Neither of them were doing something that required them to be confronted or tattled on. Yet, they paid for the simple act of standing up for themselves with their lives. Zimmerman and Reeves STARTED the whole thing. If they had minded their own business in the first place, neither Martin nor Oulson would have even so much as glanced in their direction.

Basically, Spring Hillian, your position seems to be that if someone is bullying you, you should just take it and not stand up for yourself, because if you do stand up for yourself, the bully is justified in shooting you.

And regardless of what the legal technicalities are, as HUMAN BEINGS, we should find that to be wrong.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,203,256 times
Reputation: 6009
Martin had no reason to believe Zimmerman was armed. You says Reeves could have changed his seat but how about Oulson? Zimmerman was ambushed. The police were on the way. Get off "because he threw popcorn". How did Oulson obtain the popcorn? How did Oulson's cell phone find its way to between Reeves' feet? Reeves' medical or physical status is not an issue.
Who said he was old and helpless? It does not matter if he was a Charles Atlas or otherwise.
He had a right to defend himself and he did.

No, we are not related :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by justNancy View Post
Are you related to this man?

Only teasing. I probably wrote just as many posts when Trayvon Martin was shot. However, I wish people wouldn't keep comparing the 2 incidents, although in both cases the shooter could have made other choices. Zimmerman could have waited for the police and Reeves could have changed his seat. However, Zimmerman was being beaten and I have no doubt was in fear for his life. OTOH, Martin was probably fighting for his own life because a lunatic with a gun was following him in the dark. I cannot possibly accept that Reeves was in fear of his life because another man threw popcorn. Maybe instead of SYG they should use an insanity defense!

I'll be 65 soon, which officially makes me a senior citizen I'm also 105 lbs and Reeves could squash me like a bug judging from this picture. I have no empathy for the man and I really resent the posts that claim he's old and helpless. Did his attorney borrow a service dog for the trial?
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,203,256 times
Reputation: 6009
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chap View Post
I agree with this:



and this:



Martin and Oulson were doing nothing wrong before being accosted by nosy, busybody, hotheaded individuals whom acted unreasonably. And when they stood up to the bullies, they were shot dead. Neither of them were doing something that required them to be confronted or tattled on. Yet, they paid for the simple act of standing up for themselves with their lives. Zimmerman and Reeves STARTED the whole thing. If they had minded their own business in the first place, neither Martin nor Oulson would have even so much as glanced in their direction.

Basically, Spring Hillian, your position seems to be that if someone is bullying you, you should just take it and not stand up for yourself, because if you do stand up for yourself, the bully is justified in shooting you.

And regardless of what the legal technicalities are, as HUMAN BEINGS, we should find that to be wrong.
Why are you missing the point that Martin was on top of Zimmerman hitting him and the point that Oulson physically attacked Reeves?

Where was Zimmerman being a bully? By tailing someone who he reported to police?

How was Reeves a bully? By going to report a problem he experienced?

Basically, your position is that you should be willing to subject yourself to physical attack by anyone who comes along and decides to physically attack you.
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