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i've lived in a lot of major cities in the u.s. over the past few decades, and have experienced firsthand the ups & downs of those r.e. markets. just declaring something "overpriced" without saying why, or at least defending your argument, leaves us hanging.
am genuinely curious why you say this.
can't be overpriced vis a vis mortgage liquidity. the best loans in decades are being written now with ltv's at record lows in agency conforming & prime jumbo. banks will be printing money for years on this book of business. nonagency nonprime is but a blip, so that can't be blamed for price inflation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SreyNuon
You can have analysis paralysis, but it doesn't take a Bloomberg to calculate or confirm most of the housing is presently overpriced, period, full stop. If you've lived in the area for over 20 years, any lucid and sober non-investment professional can sense that. Good luck.
Go do your own research on the precipitous price advances year-over-year, with no fundamental reasons for the present pricing models. Namely, go research the lack of significant price increase on commodities such as concrete block, SPF dimension lumber, 15/16 sheathing, gypsum/sheetrock, 1500 psi poured concrete, PVC piping, roofing materials (including concrete tile).
If the price of commodities hasn't significantly risen to understandably substantiate a corresponding rise in retail house pricing metrics, then "something else" is afoot. That "something else" is external to normal pricing evaluation. This market doesn't seem to have experienced any significant increase in commodity pricing, thus the builders margins have ballooned.
Additionally, there exists little evidence of labor cost inflation, or the availability of workers which would push up labor cost factored into house construction.
The market is plainly over-hyped.....artificially so by the equivalent of used car salesmen only with a State license. I have witnessed deliberate collusion in setting bogus "comps" for instance.
Find you own rainbow. All that glitters isn't gold....it might be "fools' gold".
Agreed, those are key macro new housing metrics impacting the likes of Toll, Lennar, et al.
But drilling down, what are you seeing in a micro market like an existing 3/2 waterfront condo in Tierra Verde, or a 3/2/2 waterfront (canal) SFR in Reddington Beach, that would imply it to be overpriced?
I know of several people who have purchased in those towns and nearby towns, some with all cash and some with mortgages, and we all had our own rationale in defining value and affordability.
And I totally agree with you on shady RE agent tactics--had one with the cajones to actually tell me (while he sought a dual agency role, since we walked into a public open house) that he'd cut us a deal. That was unique.....
Also, this is a discussion forum, no? The "go do your own research" comment is a little off base, i.e., if I wanted to not learn anything, I wouldn't come here. Instead, I come here to learn from others and sometimes offer up my own comments, opinions and info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SreyNuon
Go do your own research on the precipitous price advances year-over-year, with no fundamental reasons for the present pricing models. Namely, go research the lack of significant price increase on commodities such as concrete block, SPF dimension lumber, 15/16 sheathing, gypsum/sheetrock, 1500 psi poured concrete, PVC piping, roofing materials (including concrete tile).
If the price of commodities hasn't significantly risen to understandably substantiate a corresponding rise in retail house pricing metrics, then "something else" is afoot. That "something else" is external to normal pricing evaluation. This market doesn't seem to have experienced any significant increase in commodity pricing, thus the builders margins have ballooned.
Additionally, there exists little evidence of labor cost inflation, or the availability of workers which would push up labor cost factored into house construction.
The market is plainly over-hyped.....artificially so by the equivalent of used car salesmen only with a State license. I have witnessed deliberate collusion in setting bogus "comps" for instance.
Find you own rainbow. All that glitters isn't gold....it might be "fools' gold".
The "buyer's" agent gets paid commission based on the size of the sale. Money trumps "fiduciary agency".
As a buyer, I'd rather have one less mouth to feed, Unless I was out of state and reliant on a guided tour.
I did that way back when and it didn't work out all that great.
If I'm reasonably local, and can visit the properties, I'd rather just deal with the listing agent.
Exactly!
I the claim dual agency is not allowed in Florida might be right if you used it in this term, but.. Listing agent can represent both sellers and buyers if they disclose it to all involved parties. And standard contract between seller and listing agent includes language about that and sellers are free to put the % agent will be paid if he/she will represent buyers as well (normally instead of 6% it's 4-4.5%).
This is what I personally witnessed. Some greedy listing agents were using their family members (also realtors) or friends as buyers agents in order to get full 6% out of sellers. I even argued with one who put unfamiliar to us name in the contract making that person our agent. Didn't fry well with us.
In the perfect world listing agent must represent best interests of the seller, but in real life all he/she wants is money and get paid asap. His/her difference in commissions if house is sold for +-10K is only $300, and if he/she feels the sale will go smooth and quick if accepted price will be <10K$, he/she will find a way to push seller to take this price.
We also witnessed listing agents helping out buyers who came to them in multiple offer situation - not only they were "advising" what the offer should be, but also were helping with terms (like later closing or up to X closing assistance)
Is it legal or ethical? I don't think so, but does it happen often? Much often than you think
When I was going to listing agent I was always honest about what I was expecting - lower offer since I do not use and agent. And I had a luck twice when listing agent agreed cut her commissions in order to make the sale go through.
Exactly!
I the claim dual agency is not allowed in Florida might be right if you used it in this term, but.. Listing agent can represent both sellers and buyers if they disclose it to all involved parties. And standard contract between seller and listing agent includes language about that and sellers are free to put the % agent will be paid if he/she will represent buyers as well (normally instead of 6% it's 4-4.5%).
This is what I personally witnessed. Some greedy listing agents were using their family members (also realtors) or friends as buyers agents in order to get full 6% out of sellers. I even argued with one who put unfamiliar to us name in the contract making that person our agent. Didn't fry well with us.
In the perfect world listing agent must represent best interests of the seller, but in real life all he/she wants is money and get paid asap. His/her difference in commissions if house is sold for +-10K is only $300, and if he/she feels the sale will go smooth and quick if accepted price will be <10K$, he/she will find a way to push seller to take this price.
We also witnessed listing agents helping out buyers who came to them in multiple offer situation - not only they were "advising" what the offer should be, but also were helping with terms (like later closing or up to X closing assistance)
Is it legal or ethical? I don't think so, but does it happen often? Much often than you think
When I was going to listing agent I was always honest about what I was expecting - lower offer since I do not use and agent. And I had a luck twice when listing agent agreed cut her commissions in order to make the sale go through.
Agree 100%...if you are familiar with the market use the listing agent...I have done it multiple times and it saved me thousands...we are selling our home currently and are listed with an agent...however I have no intention of buying with that agent unless they are the listing agent on the home I wish to purchase...
There is no normal in commission though and many listing agents, particularly the ones with 4% or even less, do not do anything for the seller and almost absolve themselves of any representation on behalf of the seller. Therefore the work is up to the buyer agent to make sure everything is right for both sides, and I have been in this situation and it is a lot of work because there are 'no disclosures' or you are working with a bank who owns it. Also when one is working with both sides, there is twice the liability and keeping both sides on working terms has been tricky for me in the past. When one side is aggressive and the other side is defensive about their home trying to be the United Nations Peacekeeping force makes that commission (which of course I have reduced - usually as agreed with my selling client in advance on the listing agreement) totally earned.
there are lots of shady people in real estate, but I do hate the way everyone knocks the industry, I don't know what everyone else does, how many law people, local councillors, teachers, builders, law enforcement members are there on here? Why not make sound sensible comments, and not put your gripes because you have had a bad experience on here, there are millions who have not. Sorry, you got me on a day off for a change - its almost ten and no one has called for a change - I might just get a 24 hour break from the job.
and Irishiis49 why not give the job to your listing agent? He/she has hopefully done you a great job, and they should know the business better than you - unless they are very new - and they will definitely go the whole distance to help you find a home, or at least let them refer you to another agent, who can - that way you can reward them with a referral fee off that agent.
There is no normal in commission though and many listing agents, particularly the ones with 4% or even less, do not do anything for the seller and almost absolve themselves of any representation on behalf of the seller. Therefore the work is up to the buyer agent to make sure everything is right for both sides, and I have been in this situation and it is a lot of work because there are 'no disclosures' or you are working with a bank who owns it. Also when one is working with both sides, there is twice the liability and keeping both sides on working terms has been tricky for me in the past. When one side is aggressive and the other side is defensive about their home trying to be the United Nations Peacekeeping force makes that commission (which of course I have reduced - usually as agreed with my selling client in advance on the listing agreement) totally earned.
there are lots of shady people in real estate, but I do hate the way everyone knocks the industry, I don't know what everyone else does, how many law people, local councillors, teachers, builders, law enforcement members are there on here? Why not make sound sensible comments, and not put your gripes because you have had a bad experience on here, there are millions who have not. Sorry, you got me on a day off for a change - its almost ten and no one has called for a change - I might just get a 24 hour break from the job.
and Irishiis49 why not give the job to your listing agent? He/she has hopefully done you a great job, and they should know the business better than you - unless they are very new - and they will definitely go the whole distance to help you find a home, or at least let them refer you to another agent, who can - that way you can reward them with a referral fee off that agent.
We are using one of the top three agents in northern Pinellas...honestly I have bought and sold so many times and know exactly where I want to be and what I want to pay for it ...to bring them in makes no sense...however if a pocket listing or one of their listings suit my needs I'm open to see it with them...don't worry about my agent being fully rewarded the team stands to make upwards 30k if house sells at current list price (if they bring the buyer)...and if they do bring the buyer I am more likely to reduce my asking price a greater amount...so it benefits my buyer too!!!
Real estate sales people are akin to used car hawkers who are only licensed by the State. Passing an exam in FL is no guarantee of competence, market savvy, pricing knowledge, legal issues, or anything else. They are paid commission sales people licensed by the state of Florida, nothing more. Most haven't even finished undergraduate school not to mention having an advanced degree in ANYTHING. Just ask them about their academic background...you might be surprised indeed.
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