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Old 04-10-2019, 09:33 PM
 
3,729 posts, read 2,960,209 times
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I feel like many individual attempts have been made at threads like this. However, I felt like this one, that could be continuously updated, might have more success at consistently drawing up interest on topics of this matter.

For the sake of this discussion, I am choosing to look at Tampa as the core city (economic/transportation/media/education/government hub) of the 8 county Tampa Bay DMA or Tampa Bay Partnership (Designated Market Area-Hillsborough, Pinellas, Pasco, Hernando, Citrus, Manatee, Sarasota and Polk counties), the 11th largest one in the US.

Here are some links that I find are helpful to aid this discussion:

First, one that isn't especially dynamic, but the "Great Places in America" list is helpful for reference on which places in our area and around the country are truly "special"

https://www.planning.org/greatplaces/

The two from our area to receive that designation so far are:
-7th Avenue-Tampa (Ybor City)
-Lake Mirror Park-Lakeland

The "Elephant in the Room" as far as Tampa developments go has to be Water Street Tampa. I am not sure if there is an active site dedicated to discussing this project which is better, but this is the link for the official site:
https://waterstreettampa.com/

Also worth noting are the efforts by Temple Terrace to sort of craft a downtown space where there isn't one, but residents of that area could probably benefit:
file:///C:/Users/240175/Downloads/tmp_72_8-9-2010_112534_%20(1).pdf
Here is a PDF providing info on the project and details.

On the Saint Petersburg side, the website St. Pete Rising focuses on developments and projects and new openings: https://stpeterising.com/
Perhaps not the complete opposite, but a somewhat different side of the coin, Preserve the Burg focuses on maintaining the historic integrity and human scale of the city: https://preservetheburg.org/

South of Tampa Bay, Bradenton is focusing on an Eastern Expansion of the Riverwalk, a step that will certainly widen the footprint of the downtown area: https://www.realizebradenton.com/expansion

I am not as familiar with individual developments in Sarasota, though I am certain they are happening. What I can tell you is that Sarasota was one of the cities that initially used "form based code" in the development of their city (perhaps the first of any significant size). Form based code is defined as "a means of regulating land development to achieve a specific urban form" (in lay terms, that the urban section of a specific area makes sense for that respective area, instead of being a "one size fits all" zoning process. It was developed by Andres Duany, one of the primary names in urban planning and development. The link below actually outlines the most recent updates to Sarasota's form based code. I will warn you, it is near 500 pages, so while there may be some interesting sections to peruse, it certainly isn't something you can "get the idea from right away.

https://www.sarasotafl.gov/home/showdocument?id=3257

https://www.walkscore.com/FL/Tampa

However imperfect it is (and it is, I have discussed that with other people with like interests on here and elsewhere), I feel like this link is important to note too. It really does a good initial job of laying out the importance of being able to walk to various things, within a certain window of time (officially termed the "pedestrian shed").

Touching on transportation, I would like to post a couple links here about alternate forms now present in the area:

https://www.cltampa.com/news-views/l...scal-year-2019 An article on the expansion of service on the TECO Streetcar line, since TECO received a 2.7 million dollar state grant, making rides free since this past fall.

Cross-Bay Ferry | St. Pete – Tampa
This one I see less as a legitimate commute thing, and more as a really cool way to spend an afternoon or evening, even if just staying on board and riding round trip.

Last link (I know this one is a bit off topic since it doesn't directly relate to Tampa and Urban Planning), but it's a population graphic of the world's largest cities over the past 500 years. Really helps us understand our history and present a lot better:
https://observablehq.com/@johnburnmu...s-in-the-world
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:20 AM
 
223 posts, read 231,106 times
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Is the Publix in Channelside dead? One thing about Tampa I've noticed is construction takes FOREVER and many projects never see completion. I trust Vinik (sort of) but remain skeptical. I hope Water Street works out.
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Old 04-11-2019, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Not the end of the Earth, but I can see it from here
3,527 posts, read 3,650,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip Mcnealy View Post
Is the Publix in Channelside dead? One thing about Tampa I've noticed is construction takes FOREVER and many projects never see completion. I trust Vinik (sort of) but remain skeptical. I hope Water Street works out.
No. Itís still being built out, I believe completion is planned for late summer.

RM
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:06 PM
 
223 posts, read 231,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVANCEDmgmt View Post
my thoughts:


I'm not sure the point. Tampa is not a pedestrian MSA, and never will be in toto. There exists a firm, years long trend in suburban now ex-urban development throughout The Bay area, not just Tampa proper. Tampa isn't turning into NYC anytime soon, nor should it. Many newcomers moving to the Bay area are trying to get away from high-density living in the first place. Tampa isn't Miami either, nor should it be. Tampa's modern culture has never been connected to high density/urban type living.

.
Vinik's vision is to create a more walkable downtown. MIllion dollar condo's are being built in Channelside, Harbor Island etc. They are knocking down the flour mill to connect channelside and downtown. A new Mariott is being built.Money is getting poured in. Super Bowl in 2020. Will it materialize? Who knows. You could be right though, the majority of people living in this area may not care about a downtown with hustle, bustle, nightlife etc. But there are people taking the risk that it will....
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Florida
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To many folks on the Pinellas side of the bay, Tampa is where you go to the airport, or else you go through it on the interstates.
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:18 AM
 
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I can't really deny a number of the points you're making. That being said, we can't all live in a fully or even leaning towards being pedestrian MSA, but that doesn't mean that following the little moves and steps that are taken to make this area more pedestrian friendly with time can't be something we partake and have an interest in.

Regardless of the fact that there is still a trend towards suburbia in this country, it's hard to deny that there is a general culture trending towards urbanism among those that are Millennials and that society in general is starting to recognize the importance of the city, and downtown. This is even true for many retiring baby-boomers that are moving to this area and discovering that the trade off of less space for a better location in the heart of things is not a bad one.

Even if that may not be the case, it is still worth advocating for and paying attention to. I personally still do live in a place that is suburban in nature, but that does not necessarily mean that I do not explore and use the urban sections of this area as much as possible (they were far more neglected and empty 20-30 years ago than they are now, at very least).

Can you expand a bit more on what it is you dislike so much about Downtown Sarasota's attempts? Generally speaking, having less of a setback from the street is a principle of urban planning that encourages people to get out and walk more, interact with those around them, and have ready access to shopping and various services. Why would you consider it so crazy to have Euro style living when generally speaking, many of their cities rank highest in the world for QOL (where, by comparison, many of our urban spaces lag behind on that front). Density of people on the street is good for a place, at least in any sense I've considered.

That said, you do seem to make a point about the fact that the way things have been built there is about pricing out all but those that are exclusive enough to be considered living in that vicinity, and I think that is a salient one. That is something I've noticed is that Sarasota seems to have not that much interest in the inclusion of lower or even middle class into some of the social scene there. Saint Petersburg, on the other hand, seems to have an entirely different take and a more inclusive one to that approach. It seems to be a place where things are more affordable and smaller businesses have a better chance of exceeding.

Tampa doesn't necessarily have to be Miami or NYC, and those places certainly don't have all the answers either. People have a certain kind of assumption that "high density living" is a dirty word, without necessarily considering the full pros and cons of both.

You do have to remember, this site is called "City Data" not "Suburban Data", and so people may want to engage on topics of urban development etc., even in their limited nature. At this point, life doesn't allow me to live in a Madrid, Osaka, etc... so I'm at least trying to engage with all that is around me haha
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Old 04-13-2019, 08:30 AM
 
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Perfect example. Currently, I live a little under 15 minutes from Downtown Bradenton. In fact, I was just down there earlier working on my paper at a popular area coffee shop (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Os...!4d-82.5744578) The type of place the area really did need.

I am also regularly utilize the Riverwalk down there which as mentioned earlier is being expanded upon. I work at a neighborhood school within a few miles of the downtown, and my employer's office (School District) is also centered there, as are county offices, city hall, etc., and other cultural hubs such as the county library and South Florida Museum (actually, now the Bishop Museum of Science and Nature), I guess, which just received a major face lift.

Similarly, my soon to be residence, while in the area, will be closer to Tampa and Saint Petersburg, which I frequent more and have more opportunities and amenities overall IMO (25 minutes to Saint Petersburg, 33 to Tampa), and while I may not live in those places (it's no secret, American metros are much more decentralized/sprawling as a whole than their counterparts on other continents), I still live close to those places and their respective amenities and career opportunities, and so what happens with each of them still concerns me a great deal, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.
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Old 04-13-2019, 08:36 AM
 
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https://www.planetizen.com/news/2019...htline-florida

Here is an article from Planetizen (an influential site for news on cities), about how Virgin Trains has now received funding to extend the track to Orlando from West Palm Beach. I actually do think this line might be reasonably used by tourists since it connects to Disney and the Airport.

I think this is relevant here even though it doesn't directly involve Tampa, because if it is successful, perhaps a follow up would be to extend the line from Orlando over to Tampa, and perhaps eventually have the ability to loop around the state.
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Old 04-13-2019, 09:41 AM
 
48 posts, read 14,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engineman View Post
To many folks on the Pinellas side of the bay, Tampa is where you go to the airport, or else you go through it on the interstates.
Funny, I always think of Tampa as the place where you go through to get to the beaches in Pinellas.
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Old 04-13-2019, 12:40 PM
 
3,729 posts, read 2,960,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Allnut View Post
Funny, I always think of Tampa as the place where you go through to get to the beaches in Pinellas.
That is a BRUTAL way to go, too. It sounds funny, but I would venture that when considering traffic at some times, and relation of freeway to coast, etc., the closest beach for those in Eastern Hillsborough Suburbs, Lakeland, etc., would actually be Nokomis Beach. Now, hopefully this doesn't go too viral and makes the roads filled with traffic, but that is one of the few close to town where I can go, run into minimal traffic along the way, fast and relatively quiet roads much of the way to getting there, etc.

It's really worth occasionally stopping off in Tampa, though, from either direction. There are some special places (see attached)

For whatever reason, it doesn't seem to show up in national lists as much. But I would say as historic districts go, Ybor is as well preserved as any urban neighborhood in the south outside of New Orleans. I'd also say the UT Plant Hall would be one of the prettiest buildings (if not the prettiest) in many US cities, not just Tampa.
Attached Thumbnails
The Official Tampa Bay Developments/Urban Enthusiast Thread-tampa2.jpg   The Official Tampa Bay Developments/Urban Enthusiast Thread-tampa3.jpg   The Official Tampa Bay Developments/Urban Enthusiast Thread-tampa4.jpg   The Official Tampa Bay Developments/Urban Enthusiast Thread-tampa5.jpg   The Official Tampa Bay Developments/Urban Enthusiast Thread-tampa6.jpg  

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