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A little honest feedback, fair enough ? it's just my own personal opinion as a Native, and a Southerner.
1) Many of us don't think we as Southerners and Floridians should be obligated to follow "NYC" and its massive difficulties, expense, lifestyle, culture or anything else. Most of us will say don't NY my FL. You like NY? great! but please don't superimpose all of your set of social, cultural, family or even sexual values upon us! it's unfair and demagogic...also a bit arrogant.
2) Most sane people actually do know what "normal" is, and what constitutes abnormality, I know we do here in Florida as natives. Most of us really see no need to re-define language or "normalcy"
3) Most Floridians don't care about what's the socio-economic-cultural "reception" that retired Americans are experiencing in Cabo, Portugal, Costa Rico, etc etc, or any other foreign nation. For that matter native Floridians who choose to move within our own 50 states such as CA, NY, Mississippi, Texas, North Dakota, Texas, etc etc DON'T attempt to "massage" their own native cultures, language, tastes, or values. Most of us think that's inappropriate and unfair.
4) As for the transplants (legal migrants and ILLEGAL immigrants)"bringing their own jobs" is not supported by the facts and stats. Also, the enormous burden that is being placed upon Florida's infrastructure, including water resources, Electricity grid, Schools, Hospitals, Policing, EMS/Fire, Air quality, Housing/pricing/demand, is STAGGERING.
5) Finally, Many Floridians thinking that all "diversity" is a cure-all or even desirable in all matters, is a myth. What many have witnessed is a type of Balkanization of sort, cultural silos and even a bit of uber ethnocentrism. Many might believe that "all diversity" for "diversity" sake alone is overrated and frankly a weird pursuit as a standalone goal. We in Florida are more interested in fairness and civility it seems.
The "New York Example" should remain very proud.....for New Yorkers.
The "California Example" should remain very proud.....for Californians.
The "Florida (and Southern) Example" should remain very proud and should not morph into any other environment, culture, lifestyle, etc of any other State, and certainly not into a foreign nation, no matter how allegedly attractive and welcoming they seem to be.
Some of us believe that if you seek the same culture from whence you came, You might be making a mis-calculation and mistake.
You gave my comments a quite different interpretation, with all due respect, you may want to read it again
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1-I am not sure where you gathered from my post that my intentions were to impose my cultural/social habits. I don't have such need. I am whom I am and I don't seek/need for people to like what I like. I am secure enough to keep mine and respect others way of life. That is diversity. No need impose anything on anyone. No sure what you mean by "sexual values" perhaps you meant sexual orientation? Again, I embrace straight people, gay people, etc. I care about my own and could not care less what other people go to bed with. And definitely, I don't want anyone caring about mine. That simple
2- I gather your definition of normal fits who you are and what you care for. and that is totally fine. there'll be others (Floridians natives included) that may disagree with you on fundamental concepts such as what defines a family, what defines home, the normal way to dress, live, work, sleep. pray, etc. I am afraid that if you do not see that is what is normal to you may not necessarily be normal to your neighbor? have dog? liking sports? watch soap operas? eat kale? burgers? sleep 9, 8, 6 hours? 3
3- I don't even know what to say to number 3 because I wasn't seeking approval or create an incentive for native Floridians to retire overseas. My comment on that was simply to illustrate that some Americans. in general, are not afraid to be exposed to teh outside world. The ones who do not want are perfectly entitled to stay where they want.
4- I have not met yet one person who decided to quit their full time job in NYC, pack their bags, and venture to move to FL. I am sure there are some. Just don't know any. The ones I know got transferred voluntarily or not since their company headquarters now allow them to work virtually from anywhere. I gather and I am with you that the state is taking a toll on social and public services. Something to consider during your state officials elections. If the state is welcoming the transplants then shouldn't your elected officials take that into consideration? What would you propose to your state elected officials to do? Can the state impose a ban on moving between states? is that even possible. I am glad there is a lot of land down there
5- I get it you're not for diversity and feel more comfortable around what you know, whom you know, family values. normalcy, etc., etc., etc. And that is fine. You're entitled to be who you are. What I do not understand is what, whom is making you act, be in a different way? This is not Hitler Fascist Germany or Communist Cuba. In both cases, you were required/demanded to dress, talk, think. eat, believe what you were told. but here in America? seriously? Perhaps the fact that I survived a dictatorship makes me see things differently...I don't see at least up north anyone telling anyone else to do things different because this is New York. I really don't. I guess I'll find out when I leave the state.
Bottom-line, Sir: if I know who I am and where I came from and I value that dearly, I don't feel the need to force and convince those around me that my way is better, cooler than yours. I am not trying and have no intention to compete with a local Floridian or New Yorker and be the way they are or try to influence, imposing my way. I do gather that you have a mass influx of immigrants mostly from Latin-American and I can understand that can pose a cultural, social, economic shock. Some may assimilate and integrate faster than others? I suppose this great nation has been through this many times before during migrations waves from Ireland, Italy, Swedish, Jewish, Eastern Europe before. I suppose the Cherokee, Navajos, etc., had also a hard time learning to live among Europeans and the African slaves
It does not cease to amaze me this blessed nation ability to adapt to change, evolution and the contributions their people from all corners of the world during the course of 4. 5 centuries have made to our current way of living, no matter what state we live on
The vibe I get from St. Pete is awesome. I love that city. Outstanding downtown, beautiful beaches 10 - 12 miles away. Lively suburbs: Dunedin, Safety Harbor, Tarpon Springs...etc..
Me too! Beautiful, clean, civic, access to some of our best beaches but also museums, parks, fine dining, people from all walks of life
The vibe I get from St. Pete is awesome. I love that city. Outstanding downtown, beautiful beaches 10 - 12 miles away. Lively suburbs: Dunedin, Safety Harbor, Tarpon Springs...etc..
Uh, I'm not sure these would be considered "suburbs" of St. Pete. They're pretty much stand-alone municipalities on their own, not to mention they're also some distance away.
my experience as a floridian is that we can do without weird vibes. I think most floridians trust family, community and those attributes that are decent, respectful and serve our families first...not others (e.g. Outsiders) who seem to want to transform st. Pete, and other dynamic cities and towns to fit their own ideal image of a great place to live, prosper and recreate.
If i decided to move to ca or nyc for example i would never ever attempt to transform the cities into a southern gulfcoast environment in any way whatsoever. The arrogance, however, with transplants moving to florida and even texas/tn is repulsive to many. Funny thing is that the transplants don't even see the errors of their ways and the unbridled arrogance that they bring with them...many actually suggest in a left-handed way that we're the ones "out of step" and even perhaps neanderthals. Thank god for the free state of florida....to most, not all.
Like the northeast? Stay there
like the san francisco/ca crowd? Great...beautiful place...stay there
like the cold midwest? Great cities ! Great....stay there
like the mississippi delta? Great...stay there
like the texas panhandle? Great...super people...stay there
like the puerto rico island? Great...love the place...stay there
you hate miami? Understood....move
you hate the redneck riviera? Understood, move to nj
you hate san francisco? Understood...move or don't move to freak city
you hate seattle and the rain? Don't move there, you're an idiot
you hate the heat and humidity? Understood, don't come here to florida (la, tx, al ga sc, tn or ms delta)
The "New York Example" should remain very proud.....for New Yorkers.
The "California Example" should remain very proud.....for Californians.
The "Florida (and Southern) Example" should remain very proud and should not morph into any other environment, culture, lifestyle, etc of any other State, and certainly not into a foreign nation, no matter how allegedly attractive and welcoming they seem to be..
The thing is that a lot of folks liked Florida because it wasn’t Alabama or Mississippi and it seems like current politicians want to turn the state into some sort of right wing Confederate paradise it’s never been instead of the quirky live and let live place it’s become since the widespread intro diction of air conditioning.
The thing is that a lot of folks liked Florida because it wasn’t Alabama or Mississippi and it seems like current politicians want to turn the state into some sort of right wing Confederate paradise it’s never been instead of the quirky live and let live place it’s become since the widespread intro diction of air conditioning.
I think it is pointless to argue with one sided minds like that...
he's politicizing the issue as if we should only live where our "political affiliation" is welcome as that determines therefore "sexual orientation" (he calls it sex values???), "family values", definition of "normal", probably "immigration status", cultural values? crime too and even monkeypox infection rate!
He insinuated "transplants" are responsible for such calamities,
Good thing is that the majority of Floridians i've run into are not like that, republicans or democrats, no matter how much he tries to make it a political issue
Im relatively sure that there are millions of US citizens residing in beautiful Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana and Florida are perfectly happy not to deal with transplant arrogance and sense of entitlement
of the carpetbaggers and other miscreants.
For the record, the governor of FL is a native Floridian, elected by the people, and we seem to appreciate the job he's doing.
Attempting to slam great southern states (Florida is a southern state) does nothing to strengthen this point of view.....zero.....in fact, it shows exactly what most Floridians and southerners do NOT want to deal with or live around...LOL
Let's move on....but please know that St. Pete is but ONE city in Pinellas County, FL...it has a high crime rate, it also has the most monkeypox cases in Pinellas county abt 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse
The thing is that a lot of folks liked Florida because it wasn’t Alabama or Mississippi and it seems like current politicians want to turn the state into some sort of right wing Confederate paradise it’s never been instead of the quirky live and let live place it’s become since the widespread intro diction of air conditioning.
=======
You nailed it!
Live and let live...
It doesn't get any simpler than that....
My experience as a Floridian is that we can do without weird vibes. I think most Floridians trust family, community and those attributes that are decent, respectful and serve our families first...not others (e.g. outsiders) who seem to want to transform St. Pete, and other dynamic cities and towns to fit their own ideal image of a great place to live, prosper and recreate.
If I decided to move to CA or NYC for example I would never EVER attempt to transform the cities into a southern GulfCoast environment in any way whatsoever. The arrogance, however, with transplants moving to Florida and even Texas/TN is repulsive to many. Funny thing is that the transplants don't even see the errors of their ways and the unbridled arrogance that they bring with them...many actually suggest in a left-handed way that we're the ones "out of step" and even perhaps Neanderthals. Thank God for the Free State of Florida....to most, not all.
Like the Northeast? stay there
Like the San Francisco/CA crowd? great...beautiful place...stay there
Like the cold Midwest? great cities ! great....stay there
Like the Mississippi Delta? great...stay there
Like the Texas Panhandle? great...super people...stay there
Like the Puerto Rico island? great...love the place...stay there
You hate Miami? understood....move
You hate the Redneck Riviera? understood, move to NJ
You hate San Francisco? understood...move or don't move to freak city
You hate Seattle and the rain? don't move there, you're an idiot
You hate the heat and humidity? understood, don't come here to FLORIDA (LA, TX, AL GA SC, TN or MS Delta)
Imo, St. Pete has gotten quite sketchy through the years and policing has gotten almost non-existent (other than the downtown area where the nouveau riche reside). St. Pete residents, ask yourself this-when was the last time you saw a police cruiser take even a cursory drive through your neighborhood? Other than the money making speed traps, when was the last time you saw a St. Pete police officer pull over someone for ANYTHING? When was the last time you saw an illegal panhandler told to move along? Don't get me started with vehicles parked in the front lawn or unlicensed cars and commercial vehicles parked in the street for months on end. St. Pete is starting to look like the worst parts of Lealman.
As parts of the city continue to gentrify (good for investors, I guess), the surrounding neighborhoods are being ignored if not purposely sabotaged. There's a move within City Hall right now to get rid of most single family housing zoning, meaning an apartment or condo complex or a triplex can go up RIGHT next door to you (though I'm pretty sure Old Northeast will be exempt). Again, good for the investors.
I'm no snob and my neighborhood is as working class as they come but I know what I know and see what I see. Not that it means much, but my family's been around St. Pete since the early '50s.
Just got a notice in the mail about Public Hearings for Zoning Map Amendments. The proposal is to allow up to 30 units an acre in what now is zoned single family homes. Duplexes, triplexes and fourplexes. There are some caveats for now (must be on an alley, must be along what the city considers a "Future Major Street") but if you look at the map you can see where the new zoning just magically starts and ends. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to the plan.
To those who think this won't effect you right now, don't worry there's more in the works.
Last edited by vaughanwilliams; 01-14-2023 at 03:43 PM..
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