Condo / Townhome HOA Fees (Clearwater, Largo: sales, real estate, foreclosure)
Tampa BayTampa - St. Petersburg - Clearwater
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I've started my extremely late and overdue search for a place I want to call home for at least the next 5 years. I do not have a family yet and by the time I do, that's when I'll consider buying a bigger place.
Let me get to the point. I've been looking at Condos and Townhomes in and around the Pinellas County area, specifically 2 / 1 units within Clearwater, Largo, Palm Harbor, and DunedIn. I'm just completely stumped at the variety of Condo / HOA fees that are involved.
My order of interest
Condo - Smaller, Sense of security, more quiet, but high monthly fees
Townhomes - Seems better, lower HOA / Condo fees
Homes - I own it, privacy, can pretty much do w/e I want, can also deal with the roof crashing, or air pumps breaking, or lots and lots of other types of hidden secrets that I may not want to deal with. Especially considering this will be a place for me and my gf for now.
Here is one for example for a condo:
Maint. Includes: BldgExter,EscrowResrv,FloodInsur,GroundMtnce,Manag er,PublicInsur,RecFaclty,Security,TrashRemv
It is priced at $320 monthly.
My question is....Is it truly worth it? I mean, for me I am considering condo or townhome because I just don't think I'll be home most of the time, do not want to carry responsibility of lawn maintenance, and want to have some sense of security being around other people at the loss of some privacy at the same time. I've got preapproval from a bank, they've got all kinds of restrictions with Condos, and I do understand why. However, some of the HOA fees i've seen hover around 400-$500 a month. So if there is public insurance, floor insurance included, what other types of insurance do I need to get if I purchase a condo that's in a building? I mean, does the price even out at all compared to buying a somewhat decent single home for 80-95k?
Any current condo owners want to chime in on any advice you want to give on this where you may have previously lived in a home as well?
My condo is a duplex type of place and the hoa is pretty steep $400/month but we get basic cable, lawn and scrubbery maintenance, irrigation of lawn, external pest control, yearly high pressure wash of the unit's exterior, and gate security. And important coverage is the external building insurance (I have to cover the internal part of the unit including contents). I'm responsible for flood insurance, and sometimes opt out ($250/yr) since I feel that my risk is low (out of high risk flood zone). We also have a huge clubhouse, pool, fitness area, softball and tennis courts that get maintained through our HOAs....so that $400 goes a long way, imo.
One thing about higher HOAs is that it might keep people of poor repute out of the neighborhood - seem like a high amount to pay, but indirectly it might keep the quality of community at a higher level.
To me that added expense is exactly what BucFan mentioned above. The pool, grounds keeping, security, and some you'll find some cable and or internet thrown in. All that added expense, while it is high, is made up with the extras that it provides.
What to watch out for/be aware of. The Cable (basic may be thrown in) is a good example. If you are a Verizon FIOS customer, you probably won't be able to have it if another company already provides. Directv or Dish may be an option, but a lot of these places won't allow you to have it placed there. If you don't use/want/need a pool, that luxury won't matter to you. So the 50 to 100 dollars your own pool would cost you (cleaning, chemicals, added electric cost) won't be realized by you.
Some really like living in these communities, others not so much.
Looks like you are really looking a the numbers which I think is very good. Sometime there is an HOA PLUS Maintenance fees. Some may not allow you to rent either. Understanding it all is vital for a decision like this. GOOD LUCK
Condos? you own the space inside the sheetrock and some appliances. Fees never decrease. Special assessments can be nightmares. Neighbors are idiots sometimes - and close idiots. Sometimes you can't even have a bbq grill..lol
All in all ? been there, done that, and would never ever do it again. Buy a single family smaller house without an HOA, and don't be bothered with the bs. Not worth it.
Hi, Condo fees, townhouse fees, some are lower in Townhomes because you are not buying a condo, but possibly a PUD, which generally does NOT include insurances, sometimes not roof, or exterior upkeep. Its basically a house on a zero lot line, so the HOA fees will cover maybe landscape, pool, basic community shared amenities With a condo as previous poster said, you own the inside, so HOA higher to cover exterior, roof, amenities, water, trash, sometimes cable (basic), insurance for building and flood if in a flood zone, an amount for reserves (always check how healthy those are!) sometimes pest control.
The main thing for you is whether you want to have all the bother and nuisance of looking after a property when you are still single (well in a non family relationship) and will be away/traveling often and don't want bother of property upkeep. Here in Florida yards and exteriors warrant a lot more attention that other areas where the weather is not so harsh (humidity/rain/sun - all in one hour LOL not to mention occasional storm warnings that may or may not happen)
If you are planning on less than five years, why pay the up front costs of purchasing a condo/townhome, if you are planning to then sell it and buy another house for a family or for more permanence. Of course if you are paying cash, then you don't have to worry so much about those. The costs of getting a loan, up front fees, etc can be hefty and you don't even start to pay off your 30 yr if you are in it less than five years.
Insurance is a big outlay in a single family home, depending on location (flood zone or not - though some flood zones are not so bad as others, it depends on the elevation of property too) If you do buy in a neighborhood and a single family home, then you should (if you plan to make it for a long time to include potential family later one - choose a good school zone rather than finding you have to move again, if you are planning on public school system)
It can be aggravating living in a condo/townhouse, you do have to see more folks, and there is often someone who is a real pain either to live with or constantly bickering over yours/others behaviors (condo police!) There is nothing better than the privacy of your own backyard and garage to drive into and ignore others if you want, but at the same time a single family neighborhood is also nice to socialize and get to know your neighbors if you want to, they seem less transient than condo communities.
You are presumably both young, so you can probably deal with either - if you lived in college in recent years, then you are probably ok about that. We lived in a condo when we first relocated to here, but we still keep it as an investment property and eventually moved to a single family home. I go back and forth, about moving back in there now the children have flown the coup, but then I bump into one of the condo neighbors and think maybe not!
Good luck in your searches - Pinellas County is a great place to live
I’ve posted at length on this in the past, so my briefer (not brief, just briefer ) take on this, having looked into it a lot in my own search for a home, and having had the experience of owning two condos, is that, as you’ve noted, there are trade-offs, but what I’d just add here is that if you do decide on a condo/townhome rather than a non-HOA single-family home, it’s so important to do in-depth research on the particular condominium association or HOA you’re considering. They’re not all alike, to put it mildly.
I’ve found that you can go to look at a condo, meet the neighbors and board members, see that it’s a pleasant place to live with nice people, and be told that it’s well run and in good financial shape . . . and still, even after that (i.e., even after having done more research than a lot of people do), you can make a mistake if you stop there and don’t do more homework.
Because if you investigate further, you may decide that unfortunately you shouldn’t buy there because (a) it’s in a high-risk flood zone (suggest any home buyers look into the full implications of that, including the 50% rule; there are discussions of this on City-Data, and while some very well-informed people make a decision to buy in a high-risk flood zone with eyes open because it's right for their individual situation, I think many others may be getting into something with a misconception about what's involved, such that they could come to regret the decision as they learn more), and/or (b) the condo association has no reserves to replace roofs (etc.) even though owners have been writing not-insignificant checks every month, and/or (c) (often the cause of b) there are units in foreclosure where dues have not been paid for several years, thus increasing everyone else’s payments, and there are other units that are underwater and may be at risk of future nonpayment.
I could go on about details of possible red flags (d, e, . . .) but am trying to be briefer here as my earlier posts are searchable for anyone who wants to know more of what I’ve learned from my own experience to look out for.
Having said that, some associations seem to be on a good trajectory (to the extent that one can try to predict)--reasonable, informed, fair-minded people who are volunteering their time and who care about going about things in the right way to protect their own and everyone else’s investment and make this form of ownership a good possible option with a positive outcome for all owners in that association.
The bottom line is, if you’re someone who tries to do your part and do the right thing for everyone when you get involved in any kind of joint venture, you need to check out associations very carefully to see if you’re getting involved with like-minded people, because otherwise you’re putting yourself in the position of risking a loss if others don’t live up to their responsibility as well as you do to yours. Some people went into foreclosure through no fault of their own (the crazy real estate dealings that were allowed to go on had a wider ripple effect in our economy, and many people lost jobs). But there were also many who bought into communities to reap possible rewards but were not responsible association members (for example, in my last condo association there were investors who kept their own personal homes elsewhere but did a “strategic default” on their mortgage on their rental unit in my condo association). They have cost their fellow association members a lot--not just financially but in terms of having a sense, as a homeowner, that you’re on solid ground with your home.
Best of luck with whatever you decide, OP. I know your specific question was whether the condo/HOA fees are worth it, and so I’ve rambled on a bit, but I think this is because there is no yes/no answer; the answer is “It depends.”
If you decide on a condo and find a good association, please consider coming back to post. It can be daunting to research the many possibilities (yet you’re taking a risk if you buy a condo or HOA home without doing this time-consuming due diligence), so it’s very helpful to others when people post about their own good experiences with a particular community.
And, by the way, where are you finding sub-$95K single-family homes that are "somewhat decent" places to live in Florida these days? I’m looking in that price range and have the impression (based on my own limited personal research--so, of course, there may be places I just don't know about) that if I want to buy a home rather than continue renting I need to consider condos to get into a home that’s reasonably safe and without any total deal-breaker downsides and where I’d see pride of ownership around me, so am curious about whether there are still any single-family homes in this range worth considering. (Are you checking for flood zone status, possible title issues, whether they are in high-crime areas, are in proximity to environmental hazards, need costly repairs, are insurable at a reasonable cost without modification, etc.?)
Last edited by City__Datarer; 10-02-2014 at 04:23 PM..
My condo is a duplex type of place and the hoa is pretty steep $400/month but we get basic cable, lawn and scrubbery maintenance, irrigation of lawn, external pest control, yearly high pressure wash of the unit's exterior, and gate security. And important coverage is the external building insurance (I have to cover the internal part of the unit including contents). I'm responsible for flood insurance, and sometimes opt out ($250/yr) since I feel that my risk is low (out of high risk flood zone). We also have a huge clubhouse, pool, fitness area, softball and tennis courts that get maintained through our HOAs....so that $400 goes a long way, imo.
One thing about higher HOAs is that it might keep people of poor repute out of the neighborhood - seem like a high amount to pay, but indirectly it might keep the quality of community at a higher level.
We are renting a 1429 sq feet townhome in Clearwater were built in 2004. My Landloard lives in Virginia his hoa fee is only $155. Includes landscaping exterior maitenace. And basic cable through britehouse. We have no pool or garage though.
The biggest cost component of the monthly fee is insurance. Wind, flood, fire, liability. And the older the buildings, the higher the cost. You will also be required to purchase your own 'unit contents' insurance. The monthly fee will also include a payment to the 'reserve fund'. Could be a minimal amount or substantial. It is used to cover 'deductible' expenses of a major claim, re-roof, building re-paint, other major expenses.
I’ve posted at length on this in the past, so my briefer (not brief, just briefer ) take on this, having looked into it a lot in my own search for a home, and having had the experience of owning two condos, is that, as you’ve noted, there are trade-offs, but what I’d just add here is that if you do decide on a condo/townhome rather than a non-HOA single-family home, it’s so important to do in-depth research on the particular condominium association or HOA you’re considering. They’re not all alike, to put it mildly.
I’ve found that you can go to look at a condo, meet the neighbors and board members, see that it’s a pleasant place to live with nice people, and be told that it’s well run and in good financial shape . . . and still, even after that (i.e., even after having done more research than a lot of people do), you can make a mistake if you stop there and don’t do more homework.
Because if you investigate further, you may decide that unfortunately you shouldn’t buy there because (a) it’s in a high-risk flood zone (suggest any home buyers look into the full implications of that, including the 50% rule; there are discussions of this on City-Data, and while some very well-informed people make a decision to buy in a high-risk flood zone with eyes open because it's right for their individual situation, I think many others may be getting into something with a misconception about what's involved, such that they could come to regret the decision as they learn more), and/or (b) the condo association has no reserves to replace roofs (etc.) even though owners have been writing not-insignificant checks every month, and/or (c) (often the cause of b) there are units in foreclosure where dues have not been paid for several years, thus increasing everyone else’s payments, and there are other units that are underwater and may be at risk of future nonpayment.
I could go on about details of possible red flags (d, e, . . .) but am trying to be briefer here as my earlier posts are searchable for anyone who wants to know more of what I’ve learned from my own experience to look out for.
Having said that, some associations seem to be on a good trajectory (to the extent that one can try to predict)--reasonable, informed, fair-minded people who are volunteering their time and who care about going about things in the right way to protect their own and everyone else’s investment and make this form of ownership a good possible option with a positive outcome for all owners in that association.
The bottom line is, if you’re someone who tries to do your part and do the right thing for everyone when you get involved in any kind of joint venture, you need to check out associations very carefully to see if you’re getting involved with like-minded people, because otherwise you’re putting yourself in the position of risking a loss if others don’t live up to their responsibility as well as you do to yours. Some people went into foreclosure through no fault of their own (the crazy real estate dealings that were allowed to go on had a wider ripple effect in our economy, and many people lost jobs). But there were also many who bought into communities to reap possible rewards but were not responsible association members (for example, in my last condo association there were investors who kept their own personal homes elsewhere but did a “strategic default” on their mortgage on their rental unit in my condo association). They have cost their fellow association members a lot--not just financially but in terms of having a sense, as a homeowner, that you’re on solid ground with your home.
Best of luck with whatever you decide, OP. I know your specific question was whether the condo/HOA fees are worth it, and so I’ve rambled on a bit, but I think this is because there is no yes/no answer; the answer is “It depends.”
If you decide on a condo and find a good association, please consider coming back to post. It can be daunting to research the many possibilities (yet you’re taking a risk if you buy a condo or HOA home without doing this time-consuming due diligence), so it’s very helpful to others when people post about their own good experiences with a particular community.
And, by the way, where are you finding sub-$95K single-family homes that are "somewhat decent" places to live in Florida these days? I’m looking in that price range and have the impression (based on my own limited personal research--so, of course, there may be places I just don't know about) that if I want to buy a home rather than continue renting I need to consider condos to get into a home that’s reasonably safe and without any total deal-breaker downsides and where I’d see pride of ownership around me, so am curious about whether there are still any single-family homes in this range worth considering. (Are you checking for flood zone status, possible title issues, whether they are in high-crime areas, are in proximity to environmental hazards, need costly repairs, are insurable at a reasonable cost without modification, etc.?)
As a condo treasurer the other issues is long term vs. short term. Our prior board who were in place for a very long time was short term focused only. They skipped on repairs, skipped on maint, avoided assessments, took out a large loan to fix roof rather than do an assessement. They also encouraged condo prices to shot up in bubble by letting no money down folks, investors, folks buying mulitiple units and having no rules against, pets, smoking, sublietting you name it all with no right of first refusal and no mechanism in place to follow up on back maint. Heck some folks one investor in particular bought no money down, never made a single condo maint payment, then cashed out more equity and held on for several years. The crash came hard.
Now we are focused long term. Dont pay maint, we will sue you, sue your estate, put a lien on your unit and foreclose and I dont give a damm if it is sold for one dollar and wrecks comps. In fact I would be dancing in the street as we are heavily grieving out taxes. Our building is unwarrantable, no mortgages. You know what great, lower prices but no more dead beats. Last four sales cash. Sure lower price but no risk of default on maint. As I can foreclose. And folks cant refinance either. No cash out.
We are also banging away at the loan. No repaving parking lots, steamcleaning fences etc. Property values will be depressed for 3-5 years and grounds wont look great for three to five years.
Guess what in 5-10 years we will be the most financially strong complex withing a ten mile radius. We will have zero folks in arrears. New buyers are cash buyers and old buyers will be forced out. Our taxes will have been grieved to death. We are already the lowest taxed condo due to this years win. But I got word we are going down another 15%, as soon as we get loan down, and win our fights to to lower insurance I will be able to lower maint to lowest in town and have funds to make building beautiful.
However, if you are a short timer in building you may not agree with the approach. The board is large 20% of building is on board. All 20% saw the damaging effects of short term tricks last 20 years and we are setting building up after this painful 3-5 year period to be rock solid new 100 years.
The sad part is units are selling 50% off from 7 years ago meanwhile our financials are better, trouble is in bubble no one looked at financials. My friend wanted to buy into my building I said my forecast is short term pain long term gain. Dont buy into it for at least 1-2 two years. But when it turns it will turn big time.
BTW we charge a 500 maint fee. Units pay own heat, electric, water, cable, we have no security, no common areas other than grass and black top parking lots. Residents responsible for own decks, windows, doors, HVAC, water heaters. So where does $500 go.
Well largest expense in order is is Loan taken to put on new roofs and cement work, Homeowners Insurance then Flood Insurance then Legal fes related to lawsuits/liens for folks in arrears.
Maint is the Fifth largest expense. Which is odd as why do we call it maint in first place. Basicaly maint is snow removal, landscaping, sprinklers, gutter cleaning and repair and electic and water for common grounds.
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) take on this, having looked into it a lot in my own search for a home, and having had the experience of owning two condos, is that, as you’ve noted, there are trade-offs, but what I’d just add here is that if you do decide on a condo/townhome rather than a non-HOA single-family home, it’s so important to do in-depth research on the particular condominium association or HOA you’re considering. They’re not all alike, to put it mildly.
