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Old 06-29-2009, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,319,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammie View Post
You're very welcome.


Stats aren't always the whole story, but everyone could argue until they are blue in the face as the "the feel" of an area, but numbers don't lie. That's what I like about numbers~used correctly, they make things cut and dried. Numbers that aren't manipulated for one's own purpose give the true answer and not what someone wishes the answer was.
As they say, figures may not lie, but liars sure do figure.

And please don't assume I'm name-calling, because I wouldn't dream of it. I'm merely pointing out that six people with eight different points can use the same set of figures to justify their POV-- and therefore, that statistics are only of little value, particularly when discussing something as unquantifiable as "Southern".
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,319,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w2642 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
Two things spring to mind offhand: that you equate "rural" with "Southern", and that you likely have never spent much time in Charleston or Savannah, or even Jacksonville.
Certainly, there are variations of the "Southerner," including those people from Appalachia and those people living in the three cities you mentioned. However, I would argue that rural Southerners tend to have more Southern qualities (Southern Drawl, living in poverty, fatalistic) which the nation, as a whole, associates with being Southern.
I just have no idea where to begin. Are you one of those folks who would hear my accent and immediately start talking to me as if I were a somewhat demented three year old?

Quote:
Originally Posted by w2642 View Post
I think that Tampa (and urban areas in general) do not appeal to more rural Southerners for some of the reasons I mentioned. Hence, you'll be less likely to find Southerners in Tampa. Of course, this is anecdotal information, so your experience or someone else's may be completely different. I would be interested in studies that have examined this topic.
I daresay that, in general, New York, Boston or San Francisco wouldn't appeal to more rural people, either. Hence the choice to stay in Millersport, OH, or Olanta, SC in the first place.
As for the ones who leave their small towns...well, generally they're searching for readily available jobs, which these days would preclude Tampa altogether.
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Old 06-29-2009, 09:28 AM
 
137 posts, read 484,361 times
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I can only speak for Hernando County which is considered the Tampa Bay area and is about 40 mins. north of Tampa and say yes, to a person from up north I consider Hernando very southern. I say the same for Pasco county since we spend a lot of time there as well.

I have not been to GA, NC, SC for long periods of time so I cannot speak comparing it to those areas, however this area is much more southern than I expected when I moved here. I had only been to Miami, Orlando, etc so I guess I just didnt expect it.

From what I know of the Tampa/St. Pete area, I dont see as much of it when I am down there compared to here.
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Old 06-29-2009, 04:02 PM
 
5,507 posts, read 9,254,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
And yet, you'd be incorrect, Gator.

I suspect you and I have very different experiences and very different social circles. Probably if I were a relatively new resident living in, say, the homogenized fields o' subdivisions in Trinity or Westchase, or the heavily Hidalgan parts of Clearwater, I might have a hard time noticing, myself.

I also don't subscribe to the idea of "The South" as one monolith. You'd be amazed at the people who, for example, can't tell the difference between various Southern accents (or perhaps not).
You assume wrong. I grew up in New Port Richey and Hudson. I have also lived in Gainesville. There is nothing southern about any areas in FL with the exception of some areas of the panhandle.
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Old 06-29-2009, 04:06 PM
 
5,507 posts, read 9,254,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sange77 View Post
I can only speak for Hernando County which is considered the Tampa Bay area and is about 40 mins. north of Tampa and say yes, to a person from up north I consider Hernando very southern. I say the same for Pasco county since we spend a lot of time there as well.

I have not been to GA, NC, SC for long periods of time so I cannot speak comparing it to those areas, however this area is much more southern than I expected when I moved here. I had only been to Miami, Orlando, etc so I guess I just didnt expect it.

From what I know of the Tampa/St. Pete area, I dont see as much of it when I am down there compared to here.
I don't call those areas southern. I'd say they are low income/low education.

The problem with this thread could be the definition of "southern".

Deep South - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatornation View Post


Originally Posted by Aconite
And yet, you'd be incorrect, Gator.

I suspect you and I have very different experiences and very different social circles. Probably if I were a relatively new resident living in, say, the homogenized fields o' subdivisions in Trinity or Westchase, or the heavily Hidalgan parts of Clearwater, I might have a hard time noticing, myself.

I also don't subscribe to the idea of "The South" as one monolith. You'd be amazed at the people who, for example, can't tell the difference between various Southern accents (or perhaps not).



You assume wrong. I grew up in New Port Richey and Hudson. I have also lived in Gainesville. There is nothing southern about any areas in FL with the exception of some areas of the panhandle.

I assumed nothing about you, Gator. Was I supposed to? Gosh, I hate it when I miss social cues.
I assure you, those are all hypothetical "I" statements (other than the "you'd be amazed" comment)-- but if it would make you feel better, I can guess that you might have attended U of F (and I promise not to attach any value judgments to that).
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,319,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatornation View Post
I don't call those areas southern. I'd say they are low income/low education.

The problem with this thread could be the definition of "southern".

Deep South - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Southern" was acknowledged to be a subjective term a bit upstream. In any case, I'm not sure I'd use Wikipedia as a definitive source (sorry, Jimmy).
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:33 PM
 
5,507 posts, read 9,254,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
I assumed nothing about you, Gator. Was I supposed to? Gosh, I hate it when I miss social cues.
I assure you, those are all hypothetical "I" statements (other than the "you'd be amazed" comment)-- but if it would make you feel better, I can guess that you might have attended U of F (and I promise not to attach any value judgments to that).
If you didn't make assumptions your response made little sense. All you responded with was saying that people who live in upper class subdivisions and are new to the area don't know anything about "southern Tampa".

It's pretty clear to see you'll ignore what the majority of Tampa is based on some little circle you claim to be in that is "southern". I (suspect) that very very small circle does exist but the OP probably wasn't looking for what 5% of the population represents. Of course this is just a hypothetical statement, I'm not making any assumptions.

Last edited by Gatornation; 06-29-2009 at 06:58 PM..
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:38 PM
 
Location: So. Dak.
13,495 posts, read 34,011,046 times
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Aconite, may I ask what you do trust for information? You don't trust numbers that were taken from the census bureau nor do you trust Wikipedia. What source did you use to come to your conclusion?
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Old 06-30-2009, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,319,575 times
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Well, bear in mind that the question was posted on City-Data rather than the Census Bureau or the membership committee of the Sons of the Confederacy. Therefore, one could safely assume that empirical responses, rather than numbers, were the expected and desired outcome. And indeed, SailorCurt, TampaKaren, Eresh and a number of others responded in that vein, and on both sides of the argument. Which, given the subjective nature of something like "Southern", would be logical and reasonable.
You offered statistics-- which were interesting, and helpful in a limited way. But again, you're discussing a quality whose definition is fairly amorphous. Numbers either have to be exhaustingly complete, or hold only limited value-- and even then are subject to interpretation.
As for Wikipedia...its very nature is that any oaf with a modem and minimal fine motor skills can redefine terms. Most educational venues over about third grade level refuse to accept it as a source. I was a bit surprised Gator didn't know that, given my previous, and in retrospect quite possibly erroneous, assumption that Gator refers to a collegial affiliation and not merely a fondness for old Burt Reynolds movies.

So the short answer to your question is that, in this case, I don't trust anyone who claims to have an ironclad, definitive, or measurable answer, because there cannot be one.
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