Teachers are well paid, OVERPAID!!! (government, advantages, college, cost)
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Salary is clearly a factor linked to high turnover rates. For 2005-06, the average teacher turnover was 15 percent for school districts in the top quartile of average salary and 32 percent in the bottom quartile of average salary. This pattern of turnover being twice as high in the lowest paying districts was consistent in all three years studied by researchers. Texas’ average teacher turnover rates varied from 20 to 22 percent during those three years.
Salary is clearly a factor linked to high turnover rates. For 2005-06, the average teacher turnover was 15 percent for school districts in the top quartile of average salary and 32 percent in the bottom quartile of average salary. This pattern of turnover being twice as high in the lowest paying districts was consistent in all three years studied by researchers. Texas’ average teacher turnover rates varied from 20 to 22 percent during those three years. Texas teacher salaries affect turnover, HR Exchange, October 2009
Affluent parents willing to pay will get the best teachers and keep them it might seem. That will differ by local and feelings by any given community on what they feel the role of public education is and their willingness to support THEIR school district. The great thing is that if you want low taxes and don't care about the teaching workforce there are plenty of places you can move to and have that.
One point people are missing here is that its not just someone else money, all this is being paid by the taxpayer living in that district. And, the taxes despite the sagging economy are going up along with their salaries. Schools, in order to meet their contract obligations, have to layoff teachers, and cut programs. It makes the school look bad and perform bad. Schools are caught between the teacher union, which will strike at the drop of a hat, and meeting the obligations of the students, which are on the losing end. Unless you are in a wealthy school district where money and a large tax base are not a issue, you have to accept a substandard education. Poor communities, or districts can not afford to deal with these selfish teacher unions, who are only hurting the children. I dont want to have to pay higher taxes to something that is slowly dying. But often that is the case.
There is a legislative process to approve the district budget. If you don't like their budget allocations, vote them out unless of course your views are in the minority. The union doesn't set the budget.
Look, its not like when the economy was booming people were out there demanding teachers get the double digit bonuses their educational equivalents in private industry were getting.
Everyone is willing to let teachers take the slow but steady pace when the economy is booming but when its busting suddenly teachers are overpaid.
Sorry but its hypocritical.
I couldn't agree more and I've pointed out the same in some of my posts in the past.
Look, its not like when the economy was booming people were out there demanding teachers get the double digit bonuses their educational equivalents in private industry were getting.
Everyone is willing to let teachers take the slow but steady pace when the economy is booming but when its busting suddenly teachers are overpaid.
Sorry but its hypocritical.
I understand the point you are trying to make. They are not necessarily the same people however. Fiscal conservatives were against the salary increases then and now. Others who were big supporters of increasing teacher pay in many cases still are. It is the folks in between who depending on the economy believe we either can or can't afford to pay teachers more in a given year. That is with good reason and the magical word is sustainability. When tax coffers are increasing it is easy to pump money into education. When they decline what do you do? lay off? Cut salaries? In the private sector you either adjust your cost or go bankrupt. In the public sector? That is part of the great debate. Do we increase public expenditures on education beyond that which is sustainable across economic cycles without unduly taxing those who work and pay taxes.
ITT - ignorant people who have never tried teaching make blanket claims about teacher's income based off a tiny part of a small state, then blast teachers for complaining about their salaries even though teachers didn't start the thread.
I understand the point you are trying to make. They are not necessarily the same people however. Fiscal conservatives were against the salary increases then and now. Others who were big supporters of increasing teacher pay in many cases still are. It is the folks in between who depending on the economy believe we either can or can't afford to pay teachers more in a given year. That is with good reason and the magical word is sustainability. When tax coffers are increasing it is easy to pump money into education. When they decline what do you do? lay off? Cut salaries? In the private sector you either adjust your cost or go bankrupt. In the public sector? That is part of the great debate. Do we increase public expenditures on education beyond that which is sustainable across economic cycles without unduly taxing those who work and pay taxes.
True, and likewise, we have to stop demanding that every single service (most provided by private health insurance and out-of-pocket costs in the past) be put in place in schools and paid for by the taxpayer.
While that may sound politically incorrect, the fact of the matter is that costs for those services have been shifted almost completely away from the private sector to the school system.
Also, we keep upping the ante as far as competing with countries that have an entirely differing way of doing things. Fancy curriculums designed to pass tests must be purchased so that we can "keep up."
When we give tax breaks to major corporations under the ideology that we are "keeping jobs here" we need to be mindful of whether or not those jobs pay more than $7.75 an hour, have any reasonable benefits, are full-time, and if it's worth it in the long run because our taxes will be upped in order to compensate for a lack of funds for parents to send, for example, their child to PT/OT or tutoring. I'm not saying that children should suffer by any means. I'm just saying let's get real here for a minute.
At the very least, we should check the facts of what our own individual schools are mandated to provide before we start attacking them for trying to find ways to pay for these services, and start criticizing how much teachers get paid.
As a general principle, teachers are neither overpaid nor underpaid. Good teachers are underpaid. Bad teachers are overpaid. That's what happens when you have a system that rewards competence and mediocrity with the exact same pay; and unfortunately, that system incentivizes mediocrity and disincentivizes competence.
I think most can agree that the educational system could use a serious overhaul. But it's interesting to hear the teacher responses in here. Taken as a whole, one can synthesize from their complaints that the educational system is systemically flawed: the kids suck, the parents, suck, school boards suck, administrators suck, everyone involved sucks -- except the teachers. As if the societal values that created an educational system otherwise irredeemably flawed from top to bottom managed to create this one layer in the middle that is blameless, or at worst, makes little substantive contribution to the problem. I may be getting older but I'm still just young enough to remember being a student. Particularly by the time I got to the high school level, it was pretty easy to tell which teachers had their heart in it and which ones were just coasting along. If we valued education as much as we pretend to, the latter wouldn't be tolerated.
Need more information than that just to begin with. You are talking about you. what is the average property tax in Clear Creek compared to Woodland Hills and how much difference is there in state funding? What percentage of the local budget is allocated to education in each district and are there differences in construction costs? Transportation costs? etc etc etc.
I don't know. That was basically my question - if teacher salaries correlated to school taxes, or do school taxes have more to do with the other things you pointed out.
I don't know if salaries correlate to performance, although that's an interesting question too. It's too hard to compare schools in different states. You only have SAT/ACT scores, and in some areas only a handful of students take them.
As a general principle, teachers are neither overpaid nor underpaid. Good teachers are underpaid. Bad teachers are overpaid. That's what happens when you have a system that rewards competence and mediocrity with the exact same pay; and unfortunately, that system incentivizes mediocrity and disincentivizes competence.
I think most can agree that the educational system could use a serious overhaul. But it's interesting to hear the teacher responses in here. Taken as a whole, one can synthesize from their complaints that the educational system is systemically flawed: the kids suck, the parents, suck, school boards suck, administrators suck, everyone involved sucks -- except the teachers. As if the societal values that created an educational system otherwise irredeemably flawed from top to bottom managed to create this one layer in the middle that is blameless, or at worst, makes little substantive contribution to the problem. I may be getting older but I'm still just young enough to remember being a student. Particularly by the time I got to the high school level, it was pretty easy to tell which teachers had their heart in it and which ones were just coasting along. If we valued education as much as we pretend to, the latter wouldn't be tolerated.
So very true and that is the problem. Equal pay regardless of certification or performance. Forget lousy teachers they can/should be weeded out. It is the similarity in pay between average and excellent teachers that is the crux of the problem.
I don't know. That was basically my question - if teacher salaries correlated to school taxes, or do school taxes have more to do with the other things you pointed out.
I don't know if salaries correlate to performance, although that's an interesting question too. It's too hard to compare schools in different states. You only have SAT/ACT scores, and in some areas only a handful of students take them.
You are absolutely right. There is more than just property taxes from residential housing to local budgets. Corporations/industry play a major role. It is the entire tax base in relationship to cost. Poor people are a major drain on any local budget as they contribute little financially yet cost a lot. Affluent seniors are a fiscal boom as they pay more taxes and require little other than medical facilities in return. They don't have kids in school and don't put pressure to build roads if they are retired and not commuting to work. From a non political perspective poor people having a greater than average number of children or a major whammy on the ability to afford teacher pay. Those able to pay taxes get taxed more and more just to keep up with the Jone's district. Throw in the political cry for equal services and equal education and you have a taxing of state resources to meet test of equal educational opportunity state wide.
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