Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's in my plans eventually. I don't want to chase after dual certifications yet though. I'm afraid if I did they'd give me 6 different classes to teach my first year! I'm hoping to just have 1 or 2 different math courses.
Regardless, the fact that I was in industry for a few years has definitely given me a great plan of attack for "when am I ever going to have to use this?"
It is, definitely, helpful to be able to answer the question "When will I ever have to use this?". Kids respect that you have, actually, used it. While I can relate some chemistry, I can really relate physics.
You're, probably, right on the six different preps. I'm surprised at how many preps are allowed. I had three lab based preps last year and it about killed me. There's not much danger of my being asked to teach math or physics where I am though so I'm looking at one or two preps for a while. Don't get me wrong. Having one prep does make my life easier but after about 5 hours of giving the same lecture, I'm starting to ask myself if I've said this before....and you need REALLY LARGE volume glassware to set up six labs in the same day and then all the lab reports are due on the same day. I keep leaving milk and cookies out for the grading fairy but she still skips my house, .
I don't look down my nose at teaching nor am I belittling the profession. I just appreciate what people who have been in industry bring to the table. They have experience that can't be taught in school.
Teaching is not the real world. Not even close. In the real world, everyone is not compensated the same based on years in service. They are compensated for the job they do and the difficulty in attaining the credentials to do that job. In the real world, you don't close the door and do your job in isolation. You perform your tasks for all the world to see. In the real world, you don't take the attitude that what I do is MINE (IMO, poor professionalism on the part of teachers here), you understand that everything you do while on the clock is owned by the company. I have yet to walk into a teaching position where a single lesson plan or lab was left behind by the previous teacher. In the real world, you start where your predesessor left off. In teaching, you're expected to reinvent the wheel. The teaching profession could learn a lot from the real world.
The fact I performed my job in front of others and they in front of me meant that I could self assess and make improvements on my own performance. The fact that I was taught how the job was done by the person before me before I was cut loose meant I didn't have to make the same mistakes he did. I started with a product that worked and improved upon it. Seriously, I think you could cut the time it takes for teachers to become effective in half if you trained them the way industry would. In the real world, you ,and everyone else doing the job you do, work to standards and you measure yourself against how well those standards are met. In teaching, they run around screeching if you DARE suggest teachers should be held to the same standards and compared. In industry, you ARE compared to the next person and compensated according to how you rank not guaranteed the same pay as the next person just because you've been around as long as they have.
This is, definitely, not the real world. We are, however, tasked with getting our students ready for the real world. IMO, real world experience could be of benefit here. Given a choice, I would choose a teacher with real world experience for my own kids just as I chose professors with real world experience for my own education.
FYI, engineering is a very specific field and you are taking your very narrow experiences there and extrapolating that onto every possible employment situation.
I am a published scientist, I continue to publish while teaching, I will tell you that it is not the standard in the "real world" for a job to own everything you produce. My research is in MY name because it is MINE. That is the standard in science, I know it is different in engineering but again, teachers are not paid to produce classroom materials they are paid to teach therefore the materials I generate are MY intellectual property. This is not a unique concept to education in any way, and your inability to recognize that fact is deeply disconcerting.
As for choosing a teacher, again showing your inexperience. The ability to teach is not linked by research to "real world experience" or advanced degree and for someone who claims to come from a somewhat scientific background one would think you would choose to base your opinions on research and not your feelings, odd that. If given the opportunity to choose teachers for my child, I would pick the best teacher of the subject matter regardless of whether or not they are a life long teacher or the first year out of the private sector. For someone who keeps waving their private industry experience you seem to have a real disability separating your feelings from actual science.
FYI, engineering is a very specific field and you are taking your very narrow experiences there and extrapolating that onto every possible employment situation.
I am a published scientist, I continue to publish while teaching, I will tell you that it is not the standard in the "real world" for a job to own everything you produce. My research is in MY name because it is MINE. That is the standard in science, I know it is different in engineering but again, teachers are not paid to produce classroom materials they are paid to teach therefore the materials I generate are MY intellectual property. This is not a unique concept to education in any way, and your inability to recognize that fact is deeply disconcerting.
As for choosing a teacher, again showing your inexperience. The ability to teach is not linked by research to "real world experience" or advanced degree and for someone who claims to come from a somewhat scientific background one would think you would choose to base your opinions on research and not your feelings, odd that. If given the opportunity to choose teachers for my child, I would pick the best teacher of the subject matter regardless of whether or not they are a life long teacher or the first year out of the private sector. For someone who keeps waving their private industry experience you seem to have a real disability separating your feelings from actual science.
Um, no. Obviously, you know nothing about engineering. I disagree on real world experience. It's hard to teach what you have not done yourself. My professors who had worked in the field were much better than those who had not. What my experience gives me is a solid feel for what is needed and why. And yes, I do think that the teaching profession could learn a thing or two from other professions.
You are free to pick whatever teacher you want for your kids. If you think industrial experience takes away from teaching ability, by all means choose a teacher who has never been anywhere but in adademics for your kids. Your kids, your choice. Having been in the real world and knowing my children are headed there, I would choose the teacher with real world relevent experience over the one with none. Maybe it won't make a difference but maybe it will. Can't hurt, that's for sure.
And this isn't about my feelings. It's about expereince. I know the best professors are the ones who have actually done what they teach. If nothing else, they could explain how what we were learning would be applied in the real world. I find value in that. I, happen, to teach high school. Many of my students are trying to choose majors. I have 20 years of industrial experience in 8 different positions which allows me to discuss lots of options with them. You may think that has no value but I don't. Real world experience is a different type of education. One that cannot be duplicated in the classroom or read about. If my objective is to educate kids and send them out into the real world, I can't help but think that actually having real world experience is a good thing. Fortunately, the parents of my students don't think like you. I've been highly complimented on practices I have in place that parents think will help their children in college and the real world (my students went home and complained (I'm told other teachers don't do it this way, lol) and their parents came in and told me "You go girl".).
To each his own. If you don't think there is value in real world experience, then don't pick the teachers with real world experience for your kids. Having already had one career in the real world, I think there is value in it. I don't think it's measured in test scores though.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 11-28-2010 at 05:08 PM..
Um, no. Obviously, you know nothing about engineering. I disagree on real world experience. It's hard to teach what you have not done yourself. My professors who had worked in the field were much better than those who had not. What my experience gives me is a solid feel for what is needed and why. And yes, I do think that the teaching profession could learn a thing or two from other professions.
You are free to pick whatever teacher you want for your kids. If you think industrial experience takes away from teaching ability, by all means choose a teacher who has never been anywhere but in adademics for your kids. Your kids, your choice. Having been in the real world and knowing my children are headed there, I would choose the teacher with real world relevent experience over the one with none. Maybe it won't make a difference but maybe it will. Can't hurt, that's for sure.
And this isn't about my feelings. It's about expereince. I know the best professors are the ones who have actually done what they teach. If nothing else, they could explain how what we were learning would be applied in the real world. I find value in that. I, happen, to teach high school. Many of my students are trying to choose majors. I have 20 years of industrial experience in 8 different positions which allows me to discuss lots of options with them. You may think that has no value but I don't. Real world experience is a different type of education. One that cannot be duplicated in the classroom or read about. If my objective is to educate kids and send them out into the real world, I can't help but think that actually having real world experience is a good thing. Fortunately, the parents of my students don't think like you. I've been highly complimented on practices I have in place that parents think will help their children in college and the real world (my students went home and complained (I'm told other teachers don't do it this way, lol) and their parents came in and told me "You go girl".).
To each his own. If you don't think there is value in real world experience, then don't pick the teachers with real world experience for your kids. Having already had one career in the real world, I think there is value in it. I don't think it's measured in test scores though.
You are beginning to border on the delusional.
1. I never said that I would choose someone without private sector experience. I said I would choose the best teacher, maybe you should reread that bit.
2. Again for someone claiming engineering experience you seem to place a ridiculous amount of stock in your personal experience over actual research. The research shows that neither advanced degree nor real world experience correlate (either positively or negatively) with multiple measures of student achievement.
Seriously, real question here. Which matters more, your personal opinion and experiences or empirical data?
1. I never said that I would choose someone without private sector experience. I said I would choose the best teacher, maybe you should reread that bit.
2. Again for someone claiming engineering experience you seem to place a ridiculous amount of stock in your personal experience over actual research. The research shows that neither advanced degree nor real world experience correlate (either positively or negatively) with multiple measures of student achievement.
Seriously, real question here. Which matters more, your personal opinion and experiences or empirical data?
Could you please stop with the put downs? I'm not delusional. My experience is my experience. I know a good teacher when I sit in their classroom and the best were the ones who had real life experience doing what they were teaching. That is MY experience. I think it matters that a teacher can explain just how what is being taught is used in the real world because it mattered to me when I was getting my education.
Please post your research. When I google, all I see is articles on the merits of real world experience in the classroom .
So, engineers can't place stock in personal experience? When did we stop being people? The best thing I have to go on, as a teacher, is how I was taught. What worked and what didn't. What didn't were teachers who had no clue as to how to actually use what they were teaching. I had enough teachers with industrial experience to realize that that experience is what made them better teachers. IMO, there is merit to being able to have intelligent conversations about how you used what you are teaching. I may or may not have learned more about the subject but I, definitely, learned more about how to apply it and had more respect for those teachers as teachers. I learned under all of my teachers but I always felt I got something extra from the ones who had been in the real world. I hope I give that to my students.
I would rather learn computer science from someone who was in IT because I know their knowledge goes beyond book knowledge. I would rather learn math from someone who has been in industry or science because I know they know how math is applied. Last year, one of my physics students paid me a very high compliment. I had taught my students the trig functions because we needed them in phsyics. When they got to them in trig, she told her trig teacher she already knew them and that I had taught them to her. He asked which of us taught them better. She told me that all of my students just looked at the floor. After a few minutes, she spoke up and told him "You taught us how to do problems. She taught us how to use them.". I have been told, over and over that my ability to teach kids how to apply what I'm teaching makes a difference. THAT comes from my industrial experience. I teach the trig functions as a discovery exercise because knowing how to use them takes the mystery out of them. I learned them like this student's math teacher taught them. Here they are....do problems. My experience is that it works much better if you teach it with real world application.
If teachers had degrees in the field they teach I could see higher pay. Too many have degrees in education and a superficial knowledge of the subject they teach
I have a degree in Special Education, worked with children who were deaf blind, I am fluent in sign language, iknow Braille, orientation and mobility. Those things are not as important as math and chemistry? They are definitely not as common. These skiils cannot be "faked" you cannot open a book, and teach any of these subjects.
I have a degree in Special Education, worked with children who were deaf blind, I am fluent in sign language, iknow Braille, orientation and mobility. Those things are not as important as math and chemistry? They are definitely not as common. These skiils cannot be "faked" you cannot open a book, and teach any of these subjects.
That question has been answered in the fact that special ed teachers are paid more than the rest of us. Society values special ed teachers. The rest of us are, apparently, identical and interchangeable.
Originally posted by arrgy
Sixth, we need to change the culture of teaching. All the students know that teaching sucks and MOST will not go into it because of low pay. They know better than the adults do! That needs to change, and until that mindset with our students change (which was created by adults) education will NEVER EVER change in this country.
Boy, this is so true. My students are always baffled that I actually chose to be a teacher. I've heard from many a student that they would take many jobs, but one that they would never do is teach. Even my family's been urging me to switch careers. That's sad to me.
To weigh in, teacher pay is a tough topic. As far as teacher salaries go, mine's pretty low. I manage okay, but I'm working a second job on the side just to make a dent in my student loans. And then I have to make sure I have enough money for the summer. I like my job and I love teaching. Financially though, I don't know if I can do it long term.
That question has been answered in the fact that special ed teachers are paid more than the rest of us.
They don't get paid more in the district where I work.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
and then all the lab reports are due on the same day. I keep leaving milk and cookies out for the grading fairy but she still skips my house, 
.
