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You keep using yourself as an example. You're one statistic. I can completely cancel out you by saying that I did not get paid more when I got my BS and have to set path to get paid more when I complete my MBA.
Teachers getting paid more with advanced degrees doesn't make sense unless they are teaching on a level that utilizes that advanced degree. For example, if a physics teacher gets an advanced degree and becomes a quantum physics teacher.
Actually, no. I've already pointed out that most high school teachers have a stand alone major in addition to a teaching degree. I'm comparing myself to high school teachers and arguing what we should make. My argument is you need to look at what we're worth in industry not make up an amount as they do now.
Whether advanced degrees should or should not be valued is another debate. This one is on whether they are and they are both in industry and in education. IMO, the fact they are in industry means they also should be in education. Otherwise, people are either not going to get them or they are going to leave when they do.
If I could stay in teaching, my next step would have been to get a general science certificate (the lowest science certificate) because it would allow me to teach any science. The school would pay me more for the additional credits I took but I'd be worth more to them because they could put me anywhere. I can't speak to a masters in teaching vs a bachelors because I didn't get the bachelors but I can say that my masters in engineering made me more valuable. I, finally, had the time to delve deeply into subjects that had only been glossed over in my undergrad studies.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 08-27-2011 at 09:35 AM..
Teacher pay has never been shown to correlate with student performance.
But teacher quality has, and it's hard to attract quality candidates in any field by cheaping out on salary.
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I know someone who left public school and went private and got a $20k a year pay raise but no pension. Seems like a fair tradeoff.
Your anecdotal info aside, I assure you that private school pay does not typically eclipse public school pay, although there are outliers. My state varies by area, but where I am, the starting pay for my job in a public school happens to be about 10k more than in my private school. For other incentives, both related to salary (primarily the way salary increases are determined) and those not related to salary, I'll be staying put, though. But it's definitely not a given that teachers in private schools outpace public school teachers, salarywise.
Which doesn't make all that much sense to me. A masters in math doesn't make a teacher more qualified to teach algebra.
No, but it makes them more valuable in the open market and if you want to keep them, you need to play. Like it or not, the world is competitive and one way you can judge the quality of a candidate is by their degrees. Unfortunately, education is so watered down that a masters today isn't even the equivalent of a bachelors of years gone by.
Actually, no. I've already pointed out that most high school teachers have a stand alone major in addition to a teaching degree. I'm comparing myself to high school teachers and arguing what we should make. My argument is you need to look at what we're worth in industry not make up an amount as they do now.
I'm not saying that you guys aren't underpaid, but I completely disagree with your analysis. You can't compare private for-profit salaries and non-profit salaries. It just doesn't work the same way. The revenue in a district is set and you as a teacher have no influence on funds. You get the job done, but you're not an investment like a private employee is. When a private employer pays an employee a PV salary, they're taking into consideration FV returns.
And what does that do to attain and retain quality teachers????
Teacher quality is one thing they have found that does matter. How does your revolving door of teachers increase teacher quality?
But study after study shows paying more for teachers/schools/etc. does nothing to increase quality of education.
Perhaps school systems are incentiving the wrong thing? Paying more for an advance degree when it's not needed, and inflating an employees sense of self worth in the process?
I'm not saying that you guys aren't underpaid, but I completely disagree with your analysis. You can't compare private for-profit salaries and non-profit salaries. It just doesn't work the same way. The revenue in a district is set and you as a teacher have no influence on funds. You get the job done, but you're not an investment like a private employee is. When a private employer pays an employee a PV salary, they're taking into consideration FV returns.
Not only can you, you have to. Just like different industries compare salaries. If my employee can go work for you for $10K more per year than I pay them, I have a problem!!! I have to decide if I want to keep my employee or let them go. To keep them, I need some incentive for them to stay. It might be wages or other perks I can give them but I have to look better than you do.
You are correct that teachers have no impact on revenue. THAT is the problem here. They are simply dividing up a pot with no consideration to the actual worth of the teacher in question. Fortunately, here in Michigan, a stepped wage system that rewards both years in service and advanced degrees is enough to keep most in teaching. There are those who want to take that away and I think it will be a disaster. Unfortunately, I came out to a bad economy, had to take a low paying charter school job to start and we're in step freezes now so I have no hope of staying in teaching because I can't meet my financial obligations. I've weathered all the low paying years I can so I'm headed back to industry as soon as dd#1 graduates or Michigan goes to school of choice. The only reason teaching looks better than industry right now is the perk of being able to enroll my children in the district. Fortunately, I'm worth a lot more in industry so I can make up for my education career not taking off as I'd planned in a hurry. (All things considered, I've earned about $40K less in the past 4 years than I anticipated and will continue to earn less because of wage reductions and step freezes. With two kids headed to college, that is a deal breaker for me. I knew this was a gamble going in but I hoped it would work. Fortunately, my fall back plan isn't bad at all.)
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I'm comparing myself to high school teachers and arguing what we should make. My argument is you need to look at what we're worth in industry not make up an amount as they do now.
We aren't like industry employees. In industry you're worth more to the company if you can bring in more revenue. Teachers cannot do this!!!!
