Advice for handling disrespectful student, please (misdemeanors, counselor, homework, teaching)
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Oftentimes, mindless detail takes the place of common sense. It is meant to obscure the fact that there is really nothing there. Unfortunately, the kids aren't fooled.
I see no reason kids need to be 'reminded' of rules. Surely, they know it's against the rules to launch spitballs in class, or whatever they might be doing. To be required to remind them is a joke, gives them a free pass, and tells them that your rules are toothless. I don't even think a warning should be necessary, though it makes sense to give warnings in certain circumstances, and sometimes they're all that is needed. But if a misbehavior is severe enough, I don't see anything wrong with going straight to the direct consequences stage.
When I was in high school, I had an American History teacher who was a nice guy, and we thought we could take advantage of him. We fooled around in class, asked him stupid questions to put him on, etc. and he didn't seem to mind or notice for a while. Just past the middle of the year, he suddenly snapped and became very angry with us. After that, for quite some time, the least little misbehavior resulted in an immediate detention. I used to get detention from him over and over again until I figured things out. He needed to issue consequences to regain control. It's a good thing that he wasn't denied that ability to regain control, and instead forced to follow some inane "discipline plan" that meant no consequences for the students who were misbehaving.
The most disturbing thing is the behavior of a lot of parents. I think what this really means is that our educational problems are really the result of deep-seated cultural problems.
I don't think kids should be reminded when we're talking 11th graders. I agree it just gives them a free pass. IMO, you nail the first 3 or 4 kids to the floor on the first offense and the others fall in line. Unfortunately, I couldn't do that. In that school, you had to be a liked teacher to not struggle. The dance teacher was quick to point out that the kids didn't act that way for HER. Of course not, you teach a fun elective. I teach chemistry.
20/20 hind sight, I should have stayed with the first charter to offer me a job. They scared me because they spent the first two weeks teaching their teachers how to manage crisis situations and have security guards on every floor. It turned out they're no worse than the charter I went to work for. They just acknowledge they have issues and deal with them. THEY had a process for dealing with disruptions the first time. It was a buddy teacher system. On first offenses, kids went next door and had to fill out a form reflecting on their behavior to get back into class. If they didn't, they went to the office. It was a lengthy form requiring writing of an essay on their behavior and the office didn't play around if kids didn't do it. I think that is genius. Kids aren't flooding the office, but there's an, immediate, response to misbehavior and the problem leaves the room.
I agree on that cultural problem. My theory is that many adults thought they were promised something they weren't by the education system. I think they're bitter they didn't do as well as they thought they should and looking for someone to blame. If they can blame schools for their children's failures, they can blame them for their own failures. It gives them a way to feel good about themselves without actually accomplishing anything, which is what they've been taught with the trophies just for showing up we've been giving out since the '80's. Unfortunately, acorns do not fall far from the tree. When parents diss teachers, kids will too.
Thanks everyone for your advice, information, guidance, and warnings.
I have been teaching at this school for several years and disruptive students are nothing new. But this girl is a whole new piece of work.
The school discipline plan is 1. warning 2. parent contact 3. disciplinary referral that will result in a 3 period ISS 4. disciplinary referral resulting in a whole day ISS 5. Suspension. Incidents such as threats or fights are automatic suspensions.
The big problem with this child is her parents uphold anything she does as "her right" to act as she wishes. They have no concern for how her actions affect others, only how they affect her. So when she was suspended for threatening me, according to them I was at fault, the school was at fault, everyone was at fault but their child.
Her actions mostly occur when she is stopped from doing something she wants to do. ie. talk, get up and walk around, go to the restroom. It does not take much to set her off. Personally, I think she is just spoiled rotten and needs several good spankings.
Thanks everyone.
I doubt very much if spankings would do much good.
Actually, it sounds as if this girl wants some limits because her parents don't give her any.
Do you have a school councilor? Could he or she talk to this girl. She could, of course, be a sociopath, but probably not. Her parents need counseling as much as she does, but it is probably beyond the purview of the school get them to agree to something like that. Is there anyone outside the school that her parents might listen to?
"Do unto others..." Explain it to her, because she's too stupid to understand it directly.
She's far from stupid. She's getting the attention she's seeking. To her, negative attention is better than no attention at all. And she knows that her parents will fall into line behind her.
If she is threatening to hit you, and the principal or other administrators are not supportive, call the police and make a statement regarding a threat. That should wake up her parents to the issue fairly quickly.
The problem is the parents. If I got a call from my childrens teachers they would be punished. If an adult has to call you to tell you your kids are bad and you argue with the adult rather than correcting the problem, they are clueless. The child does not have the right to steal an education from her classmates. everytime you have to stop teaching and give her attention for her rudeness the other students suffer. when a teacher is interupted the whole class is. To get back on track takes time. Since the teacher only has so much time they are forced to cram the rest of the information. My husband would use the class against a disruptive child. Make the whole class have more homework because of the lost time. Or the whole class would lose a fun activity. In 7th grade its a little harder to take a fun thing away but more homework or special assignments I don't think the rest of the class would be too happy.
The school discipline plan is 1. warning 2. parent contact 3. disciplinary referral that will result in a 3 period ISS 4. disciplinary referral resulting in a whole day ISS 5. Suspension. Incidents such as threats or fights are automatic suspensions.
This is the school plan. But what is the plan the principal is following? Sounds like the principal is testing the waters with a different plan. So here's a link that may assist you in not rocking the principals boat.
Never let her see you blink. If she knows you take it personally, she will come at you with sharpened cutco knives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28
You will look for ways to communicate to her that you understand what she is doing, that it is not appropriate, but since she is too young and immature to know better, you are willing to help show her how to be a real human being--all without saying this in these words. Once you are able to "share " this expectations with the young lady, you will eventually arrive at the point where you will be able to verbalize what she is doing wrong and how she is truly capable of choosing better behavior--you will be able to say this without sounding patronizing or holier than thou.
Find ways to show her that words are just that, nasty attitudes and insults just slide off like you are teflon. But when you show her that you know she is a great young lady and you will support her transformation towards becoming human, SLOWLY she will change. And you might not even get the change by June, but she will change (4:5 odds) and no matter what, you will have taught her you still believe in her.
There is going to be lots of tears and great frustration, but publicly you have to be the example her parents are not...also try to include the parents in this lesson. Make phone calls home for ANY little sign of being positive. Use other phone calls that acknowledge her potential and ability when calling for less than stellar behavior.
Boy this sure sounds like something a college professor would tell a beginning teacher to do. This type of student will ruin a class and take up all the teacher's time. The other students need the teacher's help with academics. If she is a special education student have her put back in a special education classroom. If she is a regular student start wring referrals and document her behavior. After so manty referrals you may suspend her from your classroom for 3 days. Continue to do this until she behaves or until she demands a transfer. Pandering and "kissing her butt" will not help her or you. Sit her in the back of the room and away from others if this is allowed.
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