Obama's STEM teacher plan (graduating, homework, pay, high school)

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by darkeconomist

Why blame students? There seems to be a persistent belief in the Greek hero, able to overcome all odds if his (or her) will is strong enough, with the corollary being that if one fails, it is because he or she was not willful enough. But that flies in the face of decades of behavioral research in to how people actually act and make decisions. Not to mention, it also oversimplifies a complex problem.

The solution is not to blame students, but to look at the whole problem from a data-driven perspective, such that we're not just making assertions, but making and testing hypothesis.

Because students here are different than students there. So saying their teachers could come here and work magic is just silly.

You have to, correctly, place the blame before you can start fixing the problem. If the problem is lack of student effort, it doesn't matter how much money you pour into teachers or technology, you will not fix the problem.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by maf763

My concern with national curricula is the degree to which it becomes a matter of least common denominator, and the way it divorces local people (educators, parents, students and the community) from the decision making process. I live in a very strong district, and I have no interest in having them have to alter what they are doing. As a matter of being realistic, ask yourself what influences there would be on the development of a national curriculum - the opportunity for and likelihood of corruption is inescapable. Finally, we have seen plenty of examples in education of the law of unintended consequences, of the problem of applying simple solutions to a complex issue. This would be the mother lode. "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H.L. Mencken. A national curriculum is not going t cure what ails failing districts.

There would be nothing to stop schools from offering local courses (for example, history of Michigan). The core courses, however, should be the same no matter where you attend school. Algebra I shouldn't be a different course in Florida than it is in Michigan. Chemistry should be taught the same in California as it is in Washington.

IB schools do this. They hold to a common standard. Why is this taboo for public schools?

A national curriculum is not THE answer. It's a start in the right direction. One thing a national curriculum would give us is an apples to apples comparison of student performance. If the basics are the same in all schools, the tests become a good comparison between schools.

[jasper12]

Ha ha...love that...we had this fancy teacher, taught in Palo Alto, come give us this "Rah Rah" speech...at the beginning of the school year, and about how awesome he was, and how to teach students using a graphing calculator, rah rah...I worked at a school, almost all kids were eligible for free lunch. Our test scores were so low...they were throwing money at our school...many of the kids were eligible for SPED, and the ones that did not speak English, were of another Minority group...our school, 95% Minority...his school...the top minority group was Asian...and yes...it does make a difference...his school, income bracket...in Palo Alto...let's say...round $500,000...our school, most folks were on assistance.

I found his talk extremely "motivating and uplifting" about how we were going to be teaching graphing in Algebra...first week out...we found out that the kids were stealing the calculators...so we had to check them out when the kids came to class, and check them back in when they left...so, how much time did that leave for instruction?

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by jasper12

Ha ha...love that...we had this fancy teacher, taught in Palo Alto, come give us this "Rah Rah" speech...at the beginning of the school year, and about how awesome he was, and how to teach students using a graphing calculator, rah rah...I worked at a school, almost all kids were eligible for free lunch. Our test scores were so low...they were throwing money at our school...many of the kids were eligible for SPED, and the ones that did not speak English, were of another Minority group...our school, 95% Minority...his school...the top minority group was Asian...and yes...it does make a difference...his school, income bracket...in Palo Alto...let's say...round $500,000...our school, most folks were on assistance.

I found his talk extremely "motivating and uplifting" about how we were going to be teaching graphing in Algebra...first week out...we found out that the kids were stealing the calculators...so we had to check them out when the kids came to class, and check them back in when they left...so, how much time did that leave for instruction?

In an ideal world where every student wants to learn, respects authority and appreciates the technology they are allowed to use and takes care of it, I'm sure this could work.

All I have is cheap calculators for my classes and I work for a wealthy district. I had 8 calculators damaged by students pulling off the keys (molded mat kind so they can't be put back on). They don't respect the property of others or other people.

I'd like to see that Rah Rah teacher actually teach in a school like the one you describe.

[jasper12]

He wrote a book on classroom management, we all got a copy...can't remember his name...it is the classroom management bible.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by jasper12

He wrote a book on classroom management, we all got a copy...can't remember his name...it is the classroom management bible.

Maybe that's my problem....I didn't read his book...

I still don't know what to do with Paul over sleeping in the corner (I do know that dropping a book next to him or shooting him with an airzooka gets his parents mad) or Suzy who starts texting as soon as I start talking....What I'd like to do with them is let them live with the natural consequences of their decisions, which would be, most likely, failure but that is not PC. I hate distrupting everyone's learning to deal with a hand full of students who don't want to pay attention. I wish it was acceptable to just let them fail. Maybe they'll learn to stay awake and pay attention.

[darkeconomist]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

Because students here are different than students there. So saying their teachers could come here and work magic is just silly.

You have to, correctly, place the blame before you can start fixing the problem. If the problem is lack of student effort, it doesn't matter how much money you pour into teachers or technology, you will not fix the problem.

That's not even remotely scientific. In science, you create a hypothesis and test it. You do not create a hypothesis and then find data to support it. But, that's what you've told me you want to do: decide who to blame then find a solution to that problem. If I've misread you, then I apologize, but that's what I got from your posts: Bad children, bad!

Maybe children are to blame. And maybe Jews actually do run the shadow government (careful, I'm making a wild exaggeration for effect). Without testable (I don't mean standardized testing, I mean verifiable) data, neither assertion can be supported above others.

[psr13]

Originally Posted by darkeconomist

Explain how diversity relates to teaching STEM courses? What do you mean by diversity? Ethnic? Economic? Religious?

The minimum you can teach in Beverly Hills is going to be vastly different than the minimum you can teach in Santa Ana. In my experience, it isn't diversity, ethnic, economic, or religious. It's the amount of English the students speak.

[maf763]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

There would be nothing to stop schools from offering local courses (for example, history of Michigan). The core courses, however, should be the same no matter where you attend school. Algebra I shouldn't be a different course in Florida than it is in Michigan. Chemistry should be taught the same in California as it is in Washington.

IB schools do this. They hold to a common standard. Why is this taboo for public schools?

A national curriculum is not THE answer. It's a start in the right direction. One thing a national curriculum would give us is an apples to apples comparison of student performance. If the basics are the same in all schools, the tests become a good comparison between schools.

All well and good, but it sidesteps the issue of how national curricula would be developed. I have no faith in the process that would be involved. If there were national curricula, it wouldn't be written by the greatest educational minds of our times in an ivy-covered university - it would be written in a windowless corridor within the beltway by some low-level employees of powerful lobbyists and politicians.

Nor do I believe we would be any closer to an apples-apples comparison between schools unless you are also talking about the same resources, books, materials, class sizes, etc.

addendum - if we had national curricula, would IB schools be exempt?

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by darkeconomist

That's not even remotely scientific. In science, you create a hypothesis and test it. You do not create a hypothesis and then find data to support it. But, that's what you've told me you want to do: decide who to blame then find a solution to that problem. If I've misread you, then I apologize, but that's what I got from your posts: Bad children, bad!

Maybe children are to blame. And maybe Jews actually do run the shadow government (careful, I'm making a wild exaggeration for effect). Without testable (I don't mean standardized testing, I mean verifiable) data, neither assertion can be supported above others.

Yes it is. Education is not a right in other countries. It's a privlidge that is earned. If you don't keep up, you get kicked out. They also don't attempt to educate all students to college readiness. By high school, many students have been tech tracked. There are major differences in how school is structured here and abroad. Abroad, my student who wants to sleep in my class would not be in my class. He would not have earned the right to be there.

In Japan, for example, it's expected that students will respect their teachers, pay attention in class and do whatever it takes to succeed. I'll take classes with 50 students like that over the 28 I get now any day of the week. In my class of 28, I can count on, at least, a few who just don't want to be there. They know that it is the teacher, not them, who will be blamed if they fail. They also know the school has a vested interest in them graduating in 4 years and that the school will give them chance after chance to pass. Unfortunately, passing doesn't have the same meaning here it has abroad either.