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Yes, I've "really worked in industry." You aren't the only one who left a high paying, well regarded job to go teach.
I realize it's not like that everywhere, but I was saying that your assumption that only bad teachers would go straight through to a masters degree is incorrect. It is very common, especially when the pay raise is worth it to many new teachers. (As a career switcher, I also went straight to my M. Ed., but to a straight out of college kid, spending $15k on one more year of school in order to make an extra $3-5k/year with the masters degree is pretty much a no brainer. It's HARD to find time to go back to finish it once you start teaching, so it's very logical to go straight through).
I'm just surprised you think I can limit my job search to the spring and you think I'll find work. I don't know anyone, in industry, who would give that advice.
I don't know if they're bad. I admitted that my only experience was in industry and there it seemed that those who stayed in school were more suited to school than industry. It was as if they stayed in school to avoid the real world. I don't know if the same is true in teaching. My only sample set is the new teacher we just hired so I won't be able to draw any conclusions from here.
I chose a masters over a certificate for the pay jump. There is very little difference between a masters and a certificate at my level. I already had most of the classes I needed for the masters. Interestingly, the one thing they cut out for the masters over the cert was the observation classes. I think we need that MORE not less but the program was written for people coming out of industry and it's difficult to do observations when you work all day.
Ivory....the way the job market is now, and you have not been in the field for awhile...I would not worry about a job offer right away. Sorry. Just reality.
I'm just surprised you think I can limit my job search to the spring and you think I'll find work. I don't know anyone, in industry, who would give that advice.
I didn't say I thought it would be easy to find work. I said I thought it was the right thing to do, for your students. That doesn't mean you sit still until May and do nothing. I would spend the fall/winter attending networking events, reaching out to former colleagues, going to conferences, taking training or courses to get yourself current in the field again, or whatever it takes to look desirable to employers.
I realize I am not in your field, nor am I in Michigan. I live in the suburbs of DC and had a career in IT--very different story.
Don't get me wrong, if your family is struggling financially or you have been told you are going to be downsized this year and it's just a matter of time, then it's every man for himself. But your posts read a lot like "the boogy man is out to get me"--as though you are expecting the worst, without concrete evidence, and are panicking.
First of all, I don't know where the OP gets the idea that contracts are not used in "industry." Contractors are increasingly being used in the private sector, and the terms are pretty similar to what you describe. My dh has a couple of contractors working for him. They certainly can be fired before their contracts end if the company desires. They also would likely get pretty negative reviews if they left mid-project. When they sign a contract, it is expected they will finish the project.
Secondly, I don't like the attitude given suggesting that only accelerated students are worthy of having teachers with industry experience. I have kids on opposite ends of the spectrum, and frankly my academically talented students are easy to teach. My daughter who sometimes struggles needs excellent teachers. The teachers who have been able to help her have attributes I just don't see displayed here. Foremost they did not look upon my daughter as being unworthy of their great knowledge. They also care tremendously about their students. They are the type of teachers who would not willingly leave mid-year because they would worry about the welfare of their students.
I have read a number of the OP's posts over time, and I echo what others have said. There is so much negativity that teaching may not be the best job choice. However, such negativity is not a good attribute in any job, and it is important not to burn bridges even in a job you dislike. For this reason, it may be a good idea to wait until the end of the school year to change careers.
First of all, I don't know where the OP gets the idea that contracts are not used in "industry." Contractors are increasingly being used in the private sector, and the terms are pretty similar to what you describe. My dh has a couple of contractors working for him. They certainly can be fired before their contracts end if the company desires. They also would likely get pretty negative reviews if they left mid-project. When they sign a contract, it is expected they will finish the project.
Secondly, I don't like the attitude given suggesting that only accelerated students are worthy of having teachers with industry experience. I have kids on opposite ends of the spectrum, and frankly my academically talented students are easy to teach. My daughter who sometimes struggles needs excellent teachers. The teachers who have been able to help her have attributes I just don't see displayed here. Foremost they did not look upon my daughter as being unworthy of their great knowledge. They also care tremendously about their students. They are the type of teachers who would not willingly leave mid-year because they would worry about the welfare of their students.
I have read a number of the OP's posts over time, and I echo what others have said. There is so much negativity that teaching may not be the best job choice. However, such negativity is not a good attribute in any job, and it is important not to burn bridges even in a job you dislike. For this reason, it may be a good idea to wait until the end of the school year to change careers.
I assume, by OP, you don't mean me since I'm the one claiming that you can be fired even with a contract and I've never even hinted they are not used in industry. I agree. A contract simply spells out the terms of employment. They cannot force you to work and the worker cannot force the company to keep them on. All it does is spell out what will be exchanged between the two parties. I have had and seen contracts altered mid contract. The employer, basically, says "Take it or leave it.". Usually, the worker takes it. It's just like being a permanent employee and your employer doing something to cut costs. Contracts are not a guarantee of employment or even a guarantee that you will be paid what you're being paid today tomorrow. Your employer could change the contract tomorrow. What I find odd is that schools expect teachers to honor the contract as if it is a guarantee that school will have a teacher all year but they wouldn't think twice about RIF'ing a teacher mid year if it suited their purposes.
I agree that the talented kids are the easy ones to teach. They benefit from my experience the least because they, pretty much, teach themselves. I swear I learn more from them than they do from me. Every year, there will be a dozen occurances where I end up doing hours of research (or assign an extra credit assignment) to answer a question asked in class that I could not answer.
I have found that my experience serves me best with kids who struggle with the material. It's here that I can tie it to the real world and tell them where this leads. My upper kids may or may not know where the material leads but they don't need that to be engaged because they are already engaged.
It's interesting that the attitude is that the upper kids need teachers who know their mateiral well when it's the opposite that is true. One of the highest compliments ever paid to me came from my team teacher last year. She told me that she has been co-teaching chemistry for years but this is the first time she's actually understood it and seen the kids understanding it. It was really cool to be told that. Too bad I struggle too badly with discipline to actually teach that level of student on a regular basis.
I didn't say I thought it would be easy to find work. I said I thought it was the right thing to do, for your students. That doesn't mean you sit still until May and do nothing. I would spend the fall/winter attending networking events, reaching out to former colleagues, going to conferences, taking training or courses to get yourself current in the field again, or whatever it takes to look desirable to employers.
I realize I am not in your field, nor am I in Michigan. I live in the suburbs of DC and had a career in IT--very different story.
Don't get me wrong, if your family is struggling financially or you have been told you are going to be downsized this year and it's just a matter of time, then it's every man for himself. But your posts read a lot like "the boogy man is out to get me"--as though you are expecting the worst, without concrete evidence, and are panicking.
Realistically, it can't be done. Limiting my job search to two or three months a year during spring/summer is a sure fire way to not find a job and you know it. I expect it to take up to two years to find work. I'd be a fool if I stopped looking for work for 9 months out of the year.
And it's not wrong to continue to look. Engineering jobs are hard to come by and teachers are a dime a dozen. I'll be replaced within days in teaching. It's not like I have some teaching skill that is needed. I don't. Heck, I don't even have an engineering skill that is needed. And, for engineering jobs, spring/summer is the wrong time to be looking. My experience is that hiring is usually done at the start of the year. I'm more likely to find something in January-March than I am June-August when vacation schedules often slow down interviewing. The last two offers to interview in industry came in February and March. I wish I'd known how last year was going to play out last March. I would have taken that interview. I was called on a 5 year old resume for that one.
I'm hoping that actively looking will result in more offers to interview in the January-March time frame. Unfortunately, that means I'd leave before the end of the year if offered a job. I cannot afford to turn down a job offer because they don't want to wait until summer to hire me.
I'm neither wanted or needed in teaching. I'm almost instantly replacable. There is no reason to not look during the time of year I'm most likely to find work. It's rediculous for you to suggest that I confine my search to the time of year least likely to generate interviews. I started looking in June after I got my PR. While there was some initial interest, the recruiter I was working with said summer just isn't the time to get interviews. He was dealing with too many people on vacation. And the longer your resume sits on a desk, the least likely you'll be callled. It's seen as old even though the reason it sat is six people were on vacation.
I will launch an all out job search in November-March because that is the time frame when I can expect it to generate interviews and, hopefully, offers.
What is not right here is for you to expect me to throw my family under the bus because the normal hiring season isn't the summer season for engineers. My family deserves security. I can't have security in teaching so I'm leaving teaching. My obligation to my family trumps everything else and there is no everything else here as it's not like I have some needed talent. I don't. Teachers are a dime a dozen. I'll be replaced in a heartbeat and 6 weeks later, no one will even care.
Ivory....the way the job market is now, and you have not been in the field for awhile...I would not worry about a job offer right away. Sorry. Just reality.
I'm not. The only point I'm making here is whenever one comes, I will take it regardless of when that is during the school year. I think it's foolish to confine my job search to May-July and stupid of anyone to suggest I should even in a good economy let alone a bad one. I expect it will take me, at least, a year (In a good economy they say one to two months per $10K in salary you are seeking. I have no idea what the range is in a bad one.). I will launch an all out job search in November as most hiring in industry (besides hiring on campus) is done in January-March but I expect this year to be nothing but practice interviews. I've been out of the game too long and don't have a specialized talent. I hear the rules have changed since the last time I was interviewing.
I do know that summer is the worst time to look. Companies tend to be understaffed in the summer because of vacations and really don't want to deal with having to train people beyond the new grads they hired in June. It's hard enough training them while understaffed. What they want is to hire early enough that the new hires are trained by the time people start going on vacation or to hire people they do not need to train. Having been out of industry for 5 years, I'm not exactly plug and play. I have a lot to offer but I will require retraining.
I'll be happy if I get 3 or 4 interviews this year. I'll be shocked if I get an offer this year. I need to learn the new rules of the game. I need to take some refresher courses. Heck, I may need another degree.
The plan is to do a local job search this year, if that doesn't pan out, then I start a nationwide job search next year. We'll just have to live in separate states while dd#2 finishes high school. Fortunately, the state allows a two year renewal of my provisional cert so I don't have to take classes for teaching as long as I get out of teaching before June of 2016 which is when the renewal would expire and I'd be unable to continue teaching. That's my deadline for getting out of teaching.
I'm going to see what's out there, figure out the skillsets that are desired and take as many classes as I can to gain those skills (For example, I know the CAD systems I worked on back in the day are no longer in use and I can take classes at a local community college in the newer ones). I will also look for summer placement next year to get a foot back in the door. I'm fully aware that this could be a multi year process (though I am hopeful because my resume did generate some interest in June. The recruiter just says the timing was bad.). I just have to make it happen in 3 years or face my certs expiring on me before the year is up.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 09-03-2012 at 06:19 AM..
As you know, I have a situation with a principal who doesn't like me. I'm questioning how valuable my certs are to the district and whether or not that gives me any leverage. To those of you who hire teachers, in Michigan, how common is the math/chemistry combo? I will he half chemistry/half math this year and for all years in the future if I stay where I am. For me, the only undesirable part of this is that I have to move rooms because the chemistry room won't accomodate the larger math classes and the math rooms aren't set up for demos. I, actually, like the idea of teaching math and chemistry. The only thing better would be math, chemistry and physics.
The pros of math/chemistry are that I can teach lower grades with math which means kids will know me coming in the door when they have me for chemistry. I come off as cold even though I'm not so having kids more than one year will be a big plus. By the end of the year, I, usually have several who hang out in my room after school but it takes a long time to get there. They have to figure out that I don't bite first. . Also, I really went to school to teach math. I think I can open more doors for kids as a math teacher than I can as a chemistry teacher just because math and math logic open doors.
My question is, how secure am I? I believe my negative PR was political last year. If I'm right, and my certs are hard to replace, I can expect support in "fixing" all my issues this year. If I'm easy to replace....... I need to hit the pavement. The district I live in is notorious for posting open positions about three weeks into the school year (nothing like waiting until the 12th hour). They called me in September last year but I turned them down becausd I had already started the year. I'm wondering if I should this year if they call. They may because the I have a strong advocate in a member of the school board and the principal of the local high school has been trying to hire me for three years. The only reason I haven't taken the offers is they keep coming after school starts and I consider it unethical to jump from one teaching position to another after the year starts. However, if I'm facing possible unemployment at the end of this year, that's horse of another color.
Let's get back to the OP and try to keep this thread education centered. There's another forum about work and employment that this may fit better in, and I'll be happy to move this there if that's where this discussion continues.
Let's get back to the OP and try to keep this thread education centered. There's another forum about work and employment that this may fit better in, and I'll be happy to move this there if that's where this discussion continues.
It needs to stay here because folks outside of education have been brainwashed by the media to think there is a shortage of teachers when there is actually a glut. However, I have my answer. My certs are not in high demand so I have no security. This thread has served it's purpose.
It needs to stay here because folks outside of education have been brainwashed by the media to think there is a shortage of teachers when there is actually a glut. However, I have my answer. My certs are not in high demand so I have no security. This thread has served it's purpose.
Ugh...its not it's....I always want that posessive 's when I'm talking about something that belongs to it!! This has got to be my most common typo....I hate when I catch them too late to change them .
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I don't know anyone, in industry, who would give that advice. 
I think we need that MORE not less but the program was written for people coming out of industry and it's difficult to do observations when you work all day.
... I need to hit the pavement. The district I live in is notorious for posting open positions about three weeks into the school year (nothing like waiting until the 12th hour). They called me in September last year but I turned them down becausd I had already started the year. I'm wondering if I should this year if they call. They may because the I have a strong advocate in a member of the school board and the principal of the local high school has been trying to hire me for three years. The only reason I haven't taken the offers is they keep coming after school starts and I consider it unethical to jump from one teaching position to another after the year starts. However, if I'm facing possible unemployment at the end of this year, that's horse of another color.
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