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Old 01-12-2013, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Delray Beach
1,135 posts, read 1,764,294 times
Reputation: 2528

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When and for how long is English grammar taught in the schools?
Judging from CD forums, it seeems like whatever was taught has long since been forgotten.
" I had went back to the store.." and ".. please give it to myself or they".. or the ever popular "better then ever" litter the web no matter where you go.
Why does bad English seem to drive out good English?
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,661,537 times
Reputation: 4865
If I am not paying attention, I use poor grammar. I also have some holes in my education and don't know all the grammar rules.

It's a informal message board.
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:34 PM
 
Location: in here, out there
3,062 posts, read 7,016,599 times
Reputation: 5109
Write more and read less and you won't be so disappointed.
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:44 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,650 posts, read 28,557,937 times
Reputation: 50477
It's a huge problem--and not just on CD. You try to read something and it's written in near gibberish. That makes it harder to understand. People don't even seem to know the difference between they're, there, and their anymore so they just make something up. They use apostrophes to form a plural. The list goes on and if they wanted to be taken seriously, they would attempt to write correctly and clearly.

Is grammar even being taught in school anymore?
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:58 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,112 posts, read 16,089,167 times
Reputation: 28292
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Is grammar even being taught in school anymore?
There was a push for more than a few years to allow creative spelling and basically ignore grammar in the theory that it was stifling children's writing because they were so worried about getting it right. They completely did away with all grammer and spelling in many school systems. I knew a couple of teachers at the primary level who got in trouble for teaching it anyway against the schools plans. It was done on the same principle as when they stopped making kids memorize math facts in favor of just manipulatives. Many an "expert" seemed to advocate that if a little bit works then a whole lot will make it way better. One day the education establishment is going to figure out that extremes don't work. They didn't get that they saw success using those new methods because they were in addition to what the kids had learned using the other methods, not in spite of them. Grammar, spelling, and sentence structure are making a comeback, if that is any comfort to you, but we will still have a large group of people who write incoherently. It's hard to teach adults new writing habits. It doesn't help that oral communication has gotten sloppy either. As a kid I can't tell you how many teachers told me to write like I speak and speak well.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:14 AM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,650 posts, read 28,557,937 times
Reputation: 50477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
There was a push for more than a few years to allow creative spelling and basically ignore grammar in the theory that it was stifling children's writing because they were so worried about getting it right. They completely did away with all grammer and spelling in many school systems. I knew a couple of teachers at the primary level who got in trouble for teaching it anyway against the schools plans. It was done on the same principle as when they stopped making kids memorize math facts in favor of just manipulatives. Many an "expert" seemed to advocate that if a little bit works then a whole lot will make it way better. One day the education establishment is going to figure out that extremes don't work. They didn't get that they saw success using those new methods because they were in addition to what the kids had learned using the other methods, not in spite of them. Grammar, spelling, and sentence structure are making a comeback, if that is any comfort to you, but we will still have a large group of people who write incoherently. It's hard to teach adults new writing habits. It doesn't help that oral communication has gotten sloppy either. As a kid I can't tell you how many teachers told me to write like I speak and speak well.
Yes, it is a comfort to me that grammar, spelling, and sentence structure are making a comeback--I just hope it's really true. Unfortunately, it's too late for a lot of people who have grown up without ever learning it.

When I first started teaching elementary school back around 1970, the emphasis was on creativity and you weren't supposed to correct the students. That's the sort of philosophy that started all this doing away with the rules and not really learning anything. In my case, a very experienced colleague took me aside and explained that I should ignore the "new" philosophy and just go ahead and teach.

But now we have generations of people who are barely literate. You can see it on CD--the people who went to school before and the people who went to school after. It's mostly the younger ones who can't put a sentence together so that people can easily comprehend what they're trying to say. What a shame.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:39 AM
 
4,484 posts, read 9,268,133 times
Reputation: 5770
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
. . . the emphasis was on creativity and you weren't supposed to correct the students. That's the sort of philosophy that started all this doing away with the rules and not really learning anything.
Eventually even creativity was abandoned, and self-expression became the goal. Reading and writing are now "all about me." Every day I go to a weather site and see the headline: "Stories That Affect Me." I can't read it if it isn't about me?

I'm glad that semi-educated people are willing to participate in this forum. There are also some regular contributors who are dyslexic. They still have ideas; they still want to ask questions. What bugs me is the people who say, "i no how to rite but im not going to bother becuase this is olny a intrnet forum so it doesnt mater if i use capitolisasion an punctation cas is jsut a forum its not like im stuped or anything i jsut can be lasy if is a form so dont be so jugmentel." That kind of statement says, "It's all about me and my self-expression."

Either they have not learned that writing is also communication, or they are just rude.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:52 AM
 
Location: The Midwest
2,966 posts, read 3,906,859 times
Reputation: 5329
Here's a hint: don't rant about poor grammar if yours is far from perfect
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:59 AM
 
Location: USA
7,776 posts, read 12,410,130 times
Reputation: 11812
A situation comedy is often filled with slangy language. I think it started in the beginning of such programing. There are so many non-words used, some even appear in online dictionaries. Anyway is an excellent example. It hurts my brain to hear anyways, but, the only time I say anything is if it is said by a grandchild of mine. I do not use perfect grammar and I'm sure I make mistakes, but, I like to think it isn't a habit. So far as spelling, it only takes a few seconds to verify spelling with Ispell... free program right next to the time on the task bar. If I don't know how to spell a word, Ispell will usually show the correct version. Sometime, an educated person will say irregardless, which is English, but, substandard.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:27 AM
 
Location: NJ
802 posts, read 1,677,964 times
Reputation: 727
I'm not perfect, but I have definitely noticed how poor grammar is spreading over the internet. I wouldn't classify city data as poor in this regard but sites such as youtube and yahoo are filled with borderline gibberish.

As others have mentioned, reading is the key to good spelling and excellent writing. Currently, young kids are reading less and less. This could be the result of too much technology actually being maladaptive and/or teachers failing to emphasize the basic building blocks of the english language. Without a solid foundation, writing skills will continue to deteriorate.
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